2nd Best

[North Coast Miller]

How did you set up and position?

I use an old 100lb heavybag for a bench, most of the sand and some of the stuffing removed. Set the anchor points about a foot higher than my head, loops tight to the floor. Bit of a stretch on my lats, instead of pulling down, I pull in a straight line from my elbows to the anchor loops. This pulls my upper back into the floor instead of pulling my feet up a la dragon flag.

How long did you hold it for?

I find even a 3-5 second pause (during reps) at 24 kg to be gnarly

8 inhale/exhale at 100% MVC followed by (and this is tough to verbalize) 4 dynamic eccentrics alternating each side for 8 reps - this IS a hypertrophy block after all!
So from the above posture, kick the hips over to one side a foot or so, feet spread, drive across toward the opposite shoulder, rotating the hips and shoulders on the same axis. Keep trying to pull MVC both hands on the exhale, drop off to about 30% on the inhale. This pries the lat longer/drives the elbow back slightly relative to the shoulder. The opposite lat shortens slightly.

If I just try to push over with my outboatd foot, my lat can defeat that. By pushing up and across I get better leverage through my trunk.

Hop up and sprint in place for 20 seconds, take a break and repeat in 2 minutes. Easy Peasy!

 

[Boris Bachmann]

For a guy who preaches upper back work all the time, I do very little of it, and when I do most of the time it's some kind of pull-up.

I'm a fan of cross bench db pullovers (watchnerd). Truth be told, I don't do them very often.

One arm db rows are also a favorite that I rarely do.

Rows w. bands are a treat too.

 

[justinr]

Kroc Rows. I got turned onto them by a Wendler video years ago. I love that if I do them right I only have to do 1 set.

 

[musicsherlock]

For a guy who preaches upper back work all the time, I do very little of it, and when I do most of the time it's some kind of pull-up.

I'm a fan of cross bench db pullovers (watchnerd). Truth be told, I don't do them very often.

One arm db rows are also a favorite that I rarely do.

Rows w. bands are a treat too.

Boris - I'm an overweight rec. swimmer...LOL...that swims 2-3 time per week. I'm currently doing Kettlebells StrongFirst swing & TGU program on off days. Being overweight I struggle with pullups. Which row variation would you think has the most carryover to freestyle?
Thanks

 

[Boris Bachmann]

Boris - I'm an overweight rec. swimmer...LOL...that swims 2-3 time per week. I'm currently doing Kettlebells StrongFirst swing & TGU program on off days. Being overweight I struggle with pullups. Which row variation would you think has the most carryover to freestyle?
Thanks

I'd recommend whatever you can/are willing to do consistently. If you were my swimmer, we'd probably do TRX suspension rows and/or one are DB rows, band pull-aparts, and dumbbell pullovers.

 

[Dann]

I have sensitive elbows. Alot of hanging, bent over rows, and recently I've attached a rubber band to my pull up bar. Loop the band through my hand while sitting on my butt and pull. Like a 1 handed lat pull down. But the band allows me to rotate my arm position on the pull my be a bit more neutral. Good stretch good pull. My current "favorite pull"

 

[watchnerd]

Cross-bench pullovers are like properly racked BB front squats and overhead squats.

It's not just an exercise, but an assessment.

 

[Zuma2]

Looking for the 2nd Best Back Exercise.

I know chin ups and pull ups are the best.

However, Chin Up seem to be really aggravating my golfers elbow. Which is frustrating, because I devoted a few months to improving them.

What's 2nd best and will cause less aggravation?

Over many years (decades) of training, I've had golfer's elbow 3x. After the 2nd bout, I've only chinned with rings. That's kept me pain-free for many years.

Presently, I'm just about done with the 3rd go-round, which began in May when I tried hanging for time from a 2x4 bolted to a rafter. I won't be doing any more of that.

With golfer's elbow, the only pain-free pulling motion I'm able to do is holding towels. I drape them through my rings and do chins or through my TRX and row. If you want more reps, use longer towels and knot them to keep from sliding down the towels.

 

[guardian7]

Looking for the 2nd Best Back Exercise.

Everybody else is going to say some flavor of rows.
Which is a solid choice, and especially good for shoulder health. You should always do some rows for shoulder health.
But....
The real answer is:
KB/DB pullovers.
AKA
"The upper body squat"
To emphasize your lats more than your pecs, keep your elbows in.
KBs have ergonomic advantages over DBs, especially if you're trying to hit the lats more, where the neutral grip makes it feel more natural to keep your elbows tight rather than flared.
How can you not respect something Arnie, Reg Park, and Frank Zane loved?
Not to mention what it does for thoracic extension and shoulder mobility that carries over to pressing.

Definitely adding these as well, I lean over a foam roller for a thoratic stretch now but this is what I should do.

I think I will go lighter and have a longer pause at the bottom and use the lat version for thoratic mobility and pullup assistance than the chest version. I will keep my dips and pushups for chest.

It seems like holding the horns of the bell is stronger safer and allows for a stronger grip than the dumbbell version with overlapping hands. I saw one video of a guy holding the bell part, which doesn't seem as safe. The video below cautions that sufficient shoulder mobility is required as a prerequisite and gives two assessments.

Programing suggestions from video: superset at end of workout with dead hangs as ultimate stretch. Before pullups for lat activation. Slight decline lbench increases stretch and difficulty. Avoid touching the floor though as this would release tension. Avoid low, heavy reps for shoulder safety. 10+ better.

Seems like calling it the upper body squat is misleading as it shouldn't be your primary lat-chest movement but a valuable addition.

For those new to the lift, check out the chest vs lat emphasis here: Elbows should not flare for the lat version.

These days I am always looking for what Pavel calls "strength stretching" ways that challenge strength and ROM at the same time like split squats and prying goblet squats. Great suggestion. It also hits the serratus anterior or boxer's muscle good for strikers and closing the pullup to the bar like the tactical pullup as well as core stability. Lots of other benefits. Good links.

 

[guardian7]

deleted.

 

[solarbear]

I bought one of these Flexbar things. Only had it two days but it seems to be doing the trick.

Put in Pull Overs and Gorilla Rows to substitute for chin ups. Pull Overs are kind of interesting.

Need a video to help dial in my kb clean form for when I return to doing Clean and Press.

 

[Ben Strong]

Not a direct answer to the OP who was asking for the best alternative exercise but a direct response about the elbow pain.

For those in the thread that are having elbow pain when pulling, remember the elbow is at the mercy of the joints above and below. So if something is going wrong at the forearm/wrist or at the shoulder you will feel it in the elbow. With pullups, a lot of people will use their forearm and finger flexors excessively in addition to the back muscles in an effort to make reps happen. The forearm and wrist/finger flexors are for sure much weaker than your back and shoulders so they are going to lose out and aggravate the elbow joint when they get overworked. The three fingers on the outside of your (hand pink, ring, and middle) are the primary ones that attach to this area.

A quick fix or work around for those with pain when doing pullups is to wrap a thick rubber band around the bar and place those three fingers (pinky, ring, and middle finger) on top of the band, effectively raising them above the bar. Then the thumb and index finger will be the only ones making contact with the bar and will be the primary digits creating most of the force on the bar. It essentially takes those three fingers out of the equation and reduces the forces on the flexors and consequentially on the elbow. If you have been getting pain there you will a notice a big difference when doing it this way. It worked quite well for me.

Additionally you can also try to use different grips that take those fingers out of the equation when you are doing any other row variation.

On the other hand if you aren't currently suffering from elbow pain, you can do some direct work to strengthen those forearm and finger flexors which will give them a greater reservoir of strength in the future so that they are harder to overwork with pulls. Things I have mentioned before in other threads are wrist supination and pronation while holding a sledgehammer or other offset weight as well as any other myriad of wrist and grip strengthening exercises. I see you got a flexbar @solarbear, that should help with the strengthening aspect.

Hat tip: Credit for this info goes to my physical therapist who worked with me on these issues. I don't like posting information as if I came up with it on my own but these techniques have eliminated elbow pain for me so give 'em a try.

 

[guardian7]

Everybody else is going to say some flavor of rows.

Which is a solid choice, and especially good for shoulder health. You should always do some rows for shoulder health.

But....

The real answer is:

KB/DB pullovers.

AKA

"The upper body squat"

To emphasize your lats more than your pecs, keep your elbows in.

KBs have ergonomic advantages over DBs, especially if you're trying to hit the lats more, where the neutral grip makes it feel more natural to keep your elbows tight rather than flared.

How can you not respect something Arnie, Reg Park, and Frank Zane loved?

Not to mention what it does for thoracic extension and shoulder mobility that carries over to pressing.

Old school muscle: The Dumbbell Pullover — The Man Blueprint

The dumbbell pullover – where do we start with this one? 1911 sounds like a good place. This was the year that pullovers were first introduced into the world by a bloke called Alan Calvert – a bit of a fitness buff at the time. Shortly after their introduction, the dumbbell pullover took the fitne

www.themanblueprint.com

Plus, most people don't do them anymore, so......novel stimulus!

With these dumbell pullovers, why don't more people just do them with two lighter dumbells? The position is more natural than the one in this image, it could be safer to bail out of, reduces internal rotation, which is already in to many exercises and not good for posture, and imbalances would be easier to see and accommodate. This position is determined by the need to grasp the dumbell this way. Having the hands separated would be a more natural throwing type position like a medicine ball throw or a soccer throw in. It is like the benefits of two dumbell chest press vs bench press. Some say you shouldn't barbell press until you max out your chest press, which seems like good advice given how often the bench messes up shoulders. It might even be worth doing them unilaterally for anti-rotation.

 

[Kepsekajse]

Focus on what you can do. Rows are always great, hit them hard and go for high reps. Add some variation, do strict, kroc rows, single arm, renegade rows. The exercises you can do and do are the optimal ones.

 

[guardian7]

Highly recommend Watchnerd's pullover suggestion.
Had time for a short workout so I tried it out. Did double dumbbell lat focused pullovers with light weight and paused reps to get a bottom stretch. I arched my back like in the "Arnold" picture as thoratic mobility is a secondary goal. Paired it with dips, facepulls, bandpull aparts. Next time I will probably add pushups for an alternative chest/back day. I did dips and inverted rows before. Thoratic stretch on foam roller as the cooldown.

Upper torso feels sore in a different way today but really good all over. Upper torso really opened up .