Nutrition 3.4 g Protein
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Molson
Level 5 Valued Member
The topic of specific dose of leucine that triggers mTor has been mentioned on this forum many times. Is this not more of an issue of an untrained person trying to build some muscle? Let’s say elderly people not interested in training for any reason.
Does a person doing strength/hypertrophy training 5 days a week still require this specific stimuli from a large portion of protein(proper leucine dose? Every meal (3-4) a day?
Does a person doing strength/hypertrophy training 5 days a week still require this specific stimuli from a large portion of protein(proper leucine dose? Every meal (3-4) a day?
Even if you're not trying to build additional muscle, you still need to repair and rebuild the muscle you have.
The harder you train, the more muscle damage occurs and needs to be repaired (not a bad thing, just a part of the process), therefore the more important it is to get adequate amounts of protein and perhaps also try to specifically trigger muscle protein synthesis as often as possible.
So I see it as just another piece of the puzzle -- if you want to get strong and/or have endurance, you need to train for it, and the better you support your training and recovery from training with nutrition, sleep, rest, and avoiding lots of lifestyle negatives, the greater chance you'll get the desired results from the training you do. But we can't get all the details 100% right 100% of the time, so it's just a matter of how much effort you want to put towards this particular piece. Personally, I currently get 100-120g/protein a day and try to spread it out between 3 meals, but I don't monitor leucine intake or use whey powder anymore (it's not recommended for people with one kidney). Generally I think the leucine is a minor player compared to the bigger picture of adequate protein intake, but it's handy that it's in whey powder. So for people trying to up their overall intake of protein, it's a great option to use.
Here's a site with a lot of detail about MPS:
The Ultimate Guide to Muscle Protein Synthesis
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
As I understand the research mTor can be triggered by diet or exercise and the only difference is that dietary induced mTor maybe subsequently be inhibited by diet (eg if you trigger mTOr with leucine then take Curcumin, the Curcumin will inhibit mTor) while exercise induced mTor is not effected by diet. Other than that the bout effect is the same. So your five days of weight training has the same effect as five leucine enriched meals. Not more or different
Niek Schokkenbroek
Level 5 Valued Member
When reading this thread I thought of this article as well. There might be no further benefits with regard to gaining muscle mass >1.6g/kg /d. High protein intake can also have other benefits for instance the higher thermic effect of protein digestion and the satiety from eating (more) protein.
Menno Henselmans also wrote (on) a study on satiety with high protein intake.
How much protein do you need for maximum satiety? [Study review]
With both articles it becomes clear that certain benefits are not endless. Benefits do not increase after a certain amount for mass gain (~1.6 g/kg) or satiety (~1.8 g/kg).
IMHO all nice in a setting for a study or research, but in the practice of day to day eating I only see it as a guideline. I certainly find it difficult to eat that much (quality...) protein on a daily basis without breaking the bank... So cannot say that I have reached such amounts of protein for a longer period.
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I'm not saying more protein isn't good, but like everything "diet" it can swing both ways. I've read it's good to cycle your intake to. A few days high or higher and then a few days low or lower.
As for needing it during the day, I don't know. I had success with a couple protein shakes during the day and a big meal at night. I just got sick of having protein shakes. As of right now I'm enjoying omad. Just toss some water, tea, or coffee and go. The only issue I'm having is the post meal bathroom rush and toilet destruction.
Pavel says he has one meal a day. And he's Chuck Norris' evil twin, so obviously it works. I believe it was Serg Nubret who said " cows eat all day, leopards eat once. Do you want to be a cow or leopard?"
As for needing it during the day, I don't know. I had success with a couple protein shakes during the day and a big meal at night. I just got sick of having protein shakes. As of right now I'm enjoying omad. Just toss some water, tea, or coffee and go. The only issue I'm having is the post meal bathroom rush and toilet destruction.
Pavel says he has one meal a day. And he's Chuck Norris' evil twin, so obviously it works. I believe it was Serg Nubret who said " cows eat all day, leopards eat once. Do you want to be a cow or leopard?"
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
Varying Protein Intake
There was an interesting article that I read on this, as well. I can't seem to find it.
It makes some sense when you compare it to...
The MADATOR Study
This study simply reinforces what bodybuilder have done for decades; Bulk and Cut.
However, the issue was that many often dramatically increased calories too high for bulking and too low when cutting. Dramatically increasing calories added a greater percentage of body fat and dramatically cutting calories produces a greater decrease in muscle mass.
The MATADOR study determined that decreasing fat mass while maintaining muscle mass was best accomplished by decreasing calorie intake for two weeks; followed by increasing it back to maintenance for two week. Continuing this until you goal weight was achieved.
Periodization Training
Periodization Training essentially resistance training cycles works in the same way.
Fasting
One of the interesting things about fasting, is when food consumption is started back up, the body's first priority is to increase muscle mass, rather than body fat.
Lean mass recovers quicker after fasting than fat mass: animal study
Once athletes start to eat normally again after a short fasting period, it looks like they’ll start by building up more muscle protein.
The General Adaptation Syndrome
Research indicates that it takes approximately two weeks for the body to adapt to a diet, exercise program or anything else.
When adaption occur, progress stops
High-Low Protein Cycling
It seems like protein cycling should work in a similar manner to Calorie Rotation and Periodization Training (cycling resistance training); The General Adaptation Syndrome.
If so, as with Calorie Rotation and Periodization Training, it might be more effective if Protein Cycling was over a period of a couple of weeks, rather than a few days; following the Calorie Rotation and Perioidization Training protocols.
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Kind of like how I seemed to lean up and gain some muscle over the holidays despite not eating the best of foods. Well they did taste so damn good.
Niek Schokkenbroek
Level 5 Valued Member
The thing is that there is no real wrong. Just if you aim for certain benefits, there is an upper limit after which the benefits do not increase with more protein.
I already thought he looked familiar, so that is why...
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