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Barbell 3 barbell lifts only

Boris Bachmann said:
30 years ago I would have agreed, but I feel like CF and the 21st century has moved the needle a lot.

Personally, I think bench press is great and you could do a lot worse than bench press as your primary push exercise
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haha, what would it be today? American kettlebell swings or kipping pull-ups?

Primary push exercise yes, sole upper body lift no. That's where the problem lies for me. It has a place in a balanced, well rounded program, in isolation I think it risks doing more harm than good.
 
Symanoy said:
haha, what would it be today? American kettlebell swings or kipping pull-ups?
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Believe it or not, I don't hear people asking "How much ya bench?" as often as questions about squatting, deadlift, or clean numbers. That could simply be the circles I find myself, but I think it's more than that. There has been a cultural shift in the S&C community. I don't know how old you are, but if you remember lifting in the 80s or 90s, you'd know it to be true.
Symanoy said:
Primary push exercise yes, sole upper body lift no. That's where the problem lies for me. It has a place in a balanced, well rounded program, in isolation I think it risks doing more harm than good.
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Who said the sole upper body lift? Not me.
 
Personally, I’m on the fence re benching. Loaded pushups are a closed chain, full anterior exercise, bench is not. Even isometric bench recruits more anterior than trad bench press.

If I had to do one upper body barbell lift it would be hang clean to a press. But conversations like this are why I’m not a fan of purposely chosing minimalist approaches without a very good, articulable reason.

What is the goal?
 
Boris Bachmann said:
Believe it or not, I don't hear people asking "How much ya bench?" as often as questions about squatting, deadlift, or clean numbers. That could simply be the circles I find myself, but I think it's more than that. There has been a cultural shift in the S&C community. I don't know how old you are, but if you remember lifting in the 80s or 90s, you'd know it to be true.
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I wasn't born till the early 90s, ten years ago there was a lot of benching going on, but then there are other circles (those doing strong lifts 5x5 or starting strength similar) who rubbished those people and focused on squat and deadlift. I think the S&C community has grown and expanded and there are so many camps within it with different values and approaches.
Boris Bachmann said:
Who said the sole upper body lift? Not me.
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The op!!
 
Boris Bachmann said:
Yeah, again, not me. Read what I've written.
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Ok, so if I get off my soap box and stop bashing the bench press, I don't think we are disagreeing? My question to you is, do you think the OP is wise to include the bench press as their sole upper body movement in their minimalist barbell program?
 
Lately I've been reading more and more articles saying that if you're not an athlete there's no point in back squatting or deadlifting. There's no disputing the benefits of these two exercises, but if your goal is core strength, full body strength, or leg strength, you can achieve those goals without squatting and deadlifting. If your goal is to build muscle, this statement applies even more.
By the way, more and more I watch videos of people who lift heavy weights, and from their appearance you can't come to the conclusion that they are training seriously. And these are generally those who perform a small number of exercises, most often the main 3.
 
Symanoy said:
Ok, so if I get off my soap box and stop bashing the bench press, I don't think we are disagreeing?
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Yeah, if you get off your soap box.
Symanoy said:
My question to you is, do you think the OP is wise to include the bench press as their sole upper body movement in their minimalist barbell program?
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It depends on the programming as a whole. I already chimed in w. what i think is clearly lacking.
 
Boris Bachmann said:
30 years ago I would have agreed, but I feel like CF and the 21st century has moved the needle a lot.

Personally, I think bench press is great and you could do a lot worse than bench press as your primary push exercise
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My only problem with the BP, particularly wide grip, is it doesn't seem to translate all the well to my life, while the press and push ups do. Could be a me thing though.
 
Dydo said:
Lately I've been reading more and more articles saying that if you're not an athlete there's no point in back squatting or deadlifting. There's no disputing the benefits of these two exercises, but if your goal is core strength, full body strength, or leg strength, you can achieve those goals without squatting and deadlifting. If your goal is to build muscle, this statement applies even more.
By the way, more and more I watch videos of people who lift heavy weights, and from their appearance you can't come to the conclusion that they are training seriously. And these are generally those who perform a small number of exercises, most often the main 3.
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Depends on who wrote the article, the website/publication, and its target audience.

A heavy weight going up indicates to me if someone is training seriously or not, I don't care what he/she looks like.
 
Dydo said:
Lately I've been reading more and more articles saying that if you're not an athlete there's no point in back squatting or deadlifting. There's no disputing the benefits of these two exercises, but if your goal is core strength, full body strength, or leg strength, you can achieve those goals without squatting and deadlifting.
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We're getting into the weeds here, but sure - no, you don't HAVE TO squat, bench, or deadlift. HOWEVER, if your goal is "full body strength", I'm just going to say umm yeah, but no - you need to squat, bench, and deadlift.

If your goal is to build muscle, this statement applies even more.
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Maybe. You'd be hard pressed to find pro bodybuilders or strongman competitors who haven't spent their share of time squatting, benching, and deadlifting. How much of their size can be directly attributed to those lifts alone? I don't know.
By the way, more and more I watch videos of people who lift heavy weights, and from their appearance you can't come to the conclusion that they are training seriously. And these are generally those who perform a small number of exercises, most often the main 3.
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Who are you talking about? Powerlifters and Olympic weightlifters?
 
Boris Bachmann said:
Who are you talking about? Powerlifters and Olympic weightlifters?
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I'm talking about the people who are not professionals and train for health and strength. These people have naturally (without the use of drugs) reached heavy weights, but many of them are visually nothing special. I'm referring to people who train mainly with a few exercises - squats, deadlifts and bench press - and hardly any other exercises. And those who started when they were older look like ordinary people, even though they have been training for several years. Those who add support or assistance work look much better.
 
Dydo said:
I'm talking about the people who are not professionals and train for health and strength. These people have naturally (without the use of drugs) reached heavy weights, but many of them are visually nothing special. I'm referring to people who train mainly with a few exercises - squats, deadlifts and bench press - and hardly any other exercises. And those who started when they were older look like ordinary people, even though they have been training for several years. Those who add support or assistance work look much better.
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I cannot tell if you are saying this as A positive or negative attribute?

That someone can get very strong but not require the genetics of a Marvel actor is arguably a very good thing.

I would wager, though, that if you can put up an average trained weight in the big 3 lifts, you’ll “look” better than someone who can’t do a plate…
 
I say it as a fact. And whether it is positive or negative is a matter of desire of the specific person. Once someone has decided to perform only a small number of basic and heavy exercises, it is obvious that his desire is to increase the strength of these exercises, and he does not care if it will affect his vision.
 
Dydo said:
I'm talking about the people who are not professionals and train for health and strength. These people have naturally (without the use of drugs) reached heavy weights, but many of them are visually nothing special. I'm referring to people who train mainly with a few exercises - squats, deadlifts and bench press - and hardly any other exercises. And those who started when they were older look like ordinary people, even though they have been training for several years. Those who add support or assistance work look much better.
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I agree that the average person who trains for health and wellbeing doesn't need to squat/bench/dead and is probably better off training in other ways.

It is possible to train for strength and put on a very limited amount of extra muscle mass. This has very much been Pavel's approach in various books. Size and strength, while related and not the same. You will find plenty of StrongFirst guys who are 'ordinary' looking and very, very strong. Training for aesthetics, i.e. bodybuilding training is a completely different discipline with different methods for different results. Everyone has to decide their goals and train for those.
 
There are styles of strength training /which is the more common one/ where the muscles grow as a consequence of the work done, although they are not the goal of the exerciser. And most often this is a consequence of the auxiliary and hypertrophic work done to strengthen the muscles needed to perform the movement. For example, performing back exercises to strengthen the bench press.
But you know these things very well and there is no need to comment on them. Some people, on the other hand, look muscular from doing very few core exercises /They do not perform additional or auxiliary work for hoppertrophy/. It's also obviously a matter of genetics.
 
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Symanoy said:
My question to you is, do you think the OP is wise to include the bench press as their sole upper body movement in their minimalist barbell program?
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It’s not wise. it has nothing to do with bench and everything to do a dumb definition of minimalism.

I’m not Boris, but this thread is bugging me with how many people think minimalist programs are a number of lifts type thing.
 
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