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Kettlebell 300 Swings a day Challenge

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Geoduck said:
Just curious, why not? I haven’t heard many people say bad things about him.
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Let me re-iterate. I don't mean to say bad things about him, or that I don't like him. I've read "Never Let Go" and really enjoyed it, and the "Hardstyle Kettlebell Challenge" is one of my favorite books about kettlebell lifting.

I'm simply not a fan of his writing style much of the time, and most of his protocols simply don't click for me. Sometimes his method of oversimplification is not for me.

Also, while his programs seem to be great for achieving PR's on lifts, or radical changes in body comp, they don't build the wiry, functional strength I'm after.

That being said i think he is absolutely brilliant as a strength coach and a good thinker in general. I've learned a lot from him
 
MikeTheBear said:
No offense, but this sounds like you caught a virus of some kind. The fact that this happened right after you did the swing program does not mean it was caused by the swing program. The argument that since event Y followed event X, event Y must have been caused by event X is a logical fallacy.
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Maybe..
My whole point was, you can't take up advanced challenges and expect to complete them if you're not ready.
 
Everyone... "overtraining" does exist. In its extreme form its called Rhabdomyolyis. I am sure their are plenty of signs leading up to this but what they are I do not exactly know.

Another measuring stick that doesn't involve a hospital would be this: Is your next workout equally as good or better than the last one? If so, keep going, if not, maybe back off...
 
Nathan said:
Everyone... "overtraining" does exist. In its extreme form its called Rhabdomyolyis. I am sure their are plenty of signs leading up to this but what they are I do not exactly know.
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I'm not in either camp (overtraining exists/doesn'exist), but I have to disagree with this. Rhabdo is no sign of overtraining.
Overtraining, in the way it is defined by people, happens by fatiguing your system over time to the point where it can't recover from the constant stress anymore.
Rhabdo happens from a single session that just went way, way, way too far. Rhabdo is not a sign of overtraining, but an injury - the result of an acute incident and not something that develops over weeks or months***.
If you do a sprinting session and pull your hamstring that's an injury and not a sign of overtraining.
If you slightly overdo it in a particular session and get really bad DOMS for the next couple of days that's not a sign of overtraining either.
Rhabdo is in the same camp.

***in the context of training! There are some deseases, virus etc. that can lead to non-traumatically induced rhabdo.

Nathan said:
s your next workout equally as good or better than the last one? If so, keep going, if not, maybe back off...
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I don't think you actually look at your training like that and just simplify here, but if one follows this advice he/she will never progress.
You will always have phenomenal, good, better than average, average, below average, bad and really bad training days.
If over the course of a whole month the quality of your sessions constantly declines or you simply have more below average-to-really bad days than average-to-pheomenal days then it's time to back off, but if you back off as soon as the next or even the next 2 to 3 sessions happen to be not so good, then you'll cut yourself short big time.
 
Thanks @Kettlebelephant you beat me to it.

I don't usually like to be pedantic and argue semantics, but sometimes it's necessary. Some terms have specific meanings when used by professionals in a certain field. The term "overtraining" is one of those.

Here's a good article that summarizes what overtraining is and isn't.

What Overtraining Is and Isn't | T Nation

For those who don't want to read the whole article here are the highlights.
  1. Overtraining is a very rare and misunderstood phenomenon. Overtraining does not mean training too much.
  2. There's a sports science definition of overtraining. It's a physiological state caused by an excess accumulation of physical, psychological, emotional, environmental, and chemical stress.
  3. If you do a workout that stresses the nervous system too much, you'll suffer from a "workout hangover." You'll have a lack of focus and energy, apathy, no motivation, and sometimes a headache.
  4. Working out too hard can overload the hormonal system. You can produce too much cortisol, which elevates inflammation and depletes testosterone.
  5. It can take months to recover from real overtraining, but you're probably not overtrained. However, sleep, nutrition and certain supplements can keep you from being overtaxed and prevent burnout.
I'll reiterate point #2: There's a sports science definition of overtraining. It's a physiological state caused by an excess accumulation of physical, psychological, emotional, environmental, and chemical stress.

As @Kettlebelephant, rhabdo, as serious a condition as it is, is NOT a symptom of "real overtraining." It's an acute injury, and in the two cases of rhabdo caused by Crossfit workouts, was brought about by one workout. "Real overtraining" accumulates over time.

Sore joints, sore muscles, sluggishness, are all symptoms of "overdoing it." Take a day off, eat a big meal, go to sleep early and you'll be cured. Sore joints may need a few more days of rest.

I also don't know whether "real overtraining" occurs or not, but I suspect that this is NOT something that most of us in the real world need to worry about. We just don't have the time to put in the levels of training needed to approach this physiologic state. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of recreational athletes are undertrained.

Bottom line: Don't be afraid of doing a challenge workout. Do it.
 
I take T-Nation with a grain of salt when 50% of their articles are "sponsored content". So, the general logic here is that Rhabdo can only be done through one workout session? Or injuries come only from one intense session? Or maybe these things happen from too much intensity and not enough rest over a period of time? I think both can certainly happen.

I personally have found that a cautious approach to training has provided more progress than adopting some overly intense workout or challenge session. I've tried a few challenge workouts for fun and also have tried some programs that were rather intense and most times have resulted in more problems than progress. So yes, if one day (for example) you find your barbell loads feel oddly heavier than the day prior, I would say take a day off and continue the next day.
 
Just to clarify, @Kettlebelephant and I were attempting to described the sport science/medical definition of "overtraining." Most laypeople casually use the term overtraining when they mean training too much, but that's not the same.

Nathan said:
So, the general logic here is that Rhabdo can only be done through one workout session?
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I'm not an expert on rhabdo and there are many causes, but the cases of rhabdo that made news some years ago came after a Crossfit WOD where the trainees pushed themselves into this state. So yes, generally speaking, exercise-induced rhabdo will result from one way-too-intense exercise session.

Nathan said:
Or injuries come only from one intense session? Or maybe these things happen from too much intensity and not enough rest over a period of time? I think both can certainly happen.
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Both. There are two types of injuries: acute and overuse. Acute injuries happen immediately. If you drop a heavy kettlebell on your foot and break a bone, that is an acute injury. Overuse injuries happen over time. Tennis elbow is an example. This is basically tendinitis in the elbow caused by the repeated stress of hitting a tennis ball.

Nathan said:
I personally have found that a cautious approach to training has provided more progress than adopting some overly intense workout or challenge session. I've tried a few challenge workouts for fun and also have tried some programs that were rather intense and most times have resulted in more problems than progress. So yes, if one day (for example) you find your barbell loads feel oddly heavier than the day prior, I would say take a day off and continue the next day.
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I don't think we're arguing against this point. While I question whether those of us who are not high level athletes can truly overtrain in the true medical sense of the term, lack of recovery is very real.
 
I see everyones point. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just sort of asking questions to add to my own knowledge base. I know I personally cannot handle much more than 3 days a week of training. If I spread the same volume or intensity over, say 4-5 days (same overall volume / intensity compared to a 3 day week) I cannot handle it. Its really wierd...

If that didnt make sense, I have been drinking... lol
 
Hello,

Sometimes, it is possible to be more tired at the end of the week. We have sort of "cumulative fatigue" due to training and daily-life (work, family, etc...) Then, I guess this is why training can be harder at the end of the week, especially with "challenge programs" such as 10k, 300 swings a day, etc...

Some folks naturally endure more volume than others. Plus, recovery may depend on lots of factors: nutrition, physical specificity (old injury, etc...), temperature, type of effort (intensity / volume / frequency).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 
Nathan said:
I see everyones point. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just sort of asking questions to add to my own knowledge base. I know I personally cannot handle much more than 3 days a week of training. If I spread the same volume or intensity over, say 4-5 days (same overall volume / intensity compared to a 3 day week) I cannot handle it. Its really wierd...

If that didnt make sense, I have been drinking... lol
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Based on my own experience, and that of Steve Justa, I think I can provide some insight on that... Or at least I'll try...

When you spread your 3 days a week load on the entire week you inhibit recovery. Your body is used to handle a given volume with 4 days of recovery and is asked to handle the same volume with only single day of recovery.

If we will look at two of Justa's singles routines we will see that the daily singles has 63 lifts a week and the every-other-day routine has 105 lifts a week. That's 66% more volume. Both routines are at 70% of 1RM load.

I did both, with good results, and definitely couldn't spread the volume of the every other day routine to the entire week.

Recovery takes resource as well.
 
I have done the 10k swing challenge 4 times. I am a former power-lifting champ and I do almost 100 percent of my training with kettle bells now. I am currently doing the 10k challenge with the beast. I have finished 7500 swings and by next Wednesday I will have finished this challenge. I dont agree at all with alot of what people are saying on here about doing swings every day and it overloading the system. My normal workouts include hundreds of swings at varying weights with rowing and assault bike HIIT 6 days a week every week. I have never been injured, I dont have immune system problems Im never sick actually. I eat clean and do swings, complex bell movements, and HIIT on cardio machines. 300 swings a day is nothing.
 
Strobe1399 said:
I have done the 10k swing challenge 4 times. I am a former power-lifting champ and I do almost 100 percent of my training with kettle bells now. I am currently doing the 10k challenge with the beast. I have finished 7500 swings and by next Wednesday I will have finished this challenge. I dont agree at all with alot of what people are saying on here about doing swings every day and it overloading the system. My normal workouts include hundreds of swings at varying weights with rowing and assault bike HIIT 6 days a week every week. I have never been injured, I dont have immune system problems Im never sick actually. I eat clean and do swings, complex bell movements, and HIIT on cardio machines. 300 swings a day is nothing.
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While personal experiences can add to our knowledge, they are just that: personal. You are a sample size of 1, and obviously very fit. No surprise that 300 swings a day for you is nothing. We are not all like that.

Having said that, I agree that anyone with good swing technique who regularly and frequently does workouts with 100 swings (like S&S) could take on the 10K swing challenge and have no problems. Probably one of the biggest problems I have with doing 300 swings is the boredom. Second is keeping track of how many I've done. I also prefer one-hand swings. Whenever I do a workout with 300 swings I'll line up several kettlebells in a row. This allows me to keep count without having to write stuff down and the varying weights provide variety to ease the boredom. For instance, I'll line up a 16, 20, 24, 28, and 32. I'll do 30 reps each and go through this "gauntlet" twice. The average weight for those KBs is 24, which is what the challenge requires. I'll also do a snatch here and there to help with the boredom.
 
This thread has made me start to wonder if doing two sessions (one AM, one PM) or S&S (while mastering a weight - not when transitioning to a higher weight) is reasonable. Has anyone done this or heard of this?
 
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