A+A + LSD + Easy Strength?

Rob.oc

First Post
Hi all,

Been reading and am interested in trying A+A but also want to go back to some barbell training as I haven't really done much of it in the last 7 years and want to rebuild strength. Wondering if there's any issues mixing an A+A protocol with something like a 3day/week flavour of easy strength and possibly throw in some LSD as well. So if I was to start easy strength Monday, Wednesday, Friday. What would be the best days to add in A+A, how many times a week would be beneficial, could LSD be thrown in on same days, or would trying to fill my plate with the different strategies just contradict each other?
 

heyholetsgo

Level 1 Valued Member
Pavel talked about this somewhere. The only thing I recall is A&A in the morning and lifting in the afternoon.
 

SteveR

Level 2 Valued Member
Maybe a good way to start is trying the 2 strength days and 2 conditioning days each week per the article below and see how that works. I would think it would work just as well with barbells.

 

Rick213

Level 6 Valued Member
What is your goal?
I would choose either A+A or Easy Strength then use LSD 2-3 times a week.
After being a barbell exclusive lifter for many years, I have really come to enjoy A+A snatches. I train for health and longevity, so no competitions besides life.
 

vegpedlr

Level 6 Valued Member
There might be too many rabbits here. ES is meant to be done 4-5 days a week, though it doesn’t take long to do. I’m trying Dan John’s Easy Strength for Fat Loss Plan right now, which does combine everything. Lift, then swing, then ruck. Five days a week. While not strictly A+A, I do 75-100 swings alternating sets with a suitcase carry. Then grab the dogs Nd ruck up the hill.

Something I’ve wanted to try is 2+2+2, kinda similar to a Wendell program. Dedicate two days a week to three different domains. So two solid strength sessions, two moderate to long but easy endurance sessions, and two strength endurance “conditioningl” sessions. It might be good, or perhaps too chaotic leaving me with no rabbits!
 

Rumsmike

Level 4 Valued Member
Something I’ve wanted to try is 2+2+2, kinda similar to a Wendell program. Dedicate two days a week to three different domains. So two solid strength sessions, two moderate to long but easy endurance sessions, and two strength endurance “conditioningl” sessions. It might be good, or perhaps too chaotic leaving me with no rabbits!
I've been forever trying to incorporate all three of these domains without over or under doing it and have settled on a three day rotation similar to what you're talking about.

For me the last few months it has been:

Day A: Simple Strength for Difficult Times (part 2)
Day B: Q&D or A&A or S&S (in 6-8 week blocks)
Day C: MAFF/LISS/LSD (whatever you want to call it) cycling, running or rucking 2-3 hours at a very easy pace. This I feels like my recovery day.
REPEAT

I've felt great and progressed nicely. The variety is great and it's a minimal time commitment. If I need a day off due to life commitments or I just need a break I skip day C and focus on the strength stuff. If I need 2 days off I'll prioritize the pure strength work.
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
Easy Strength as Pavel described it (in the book) got overshadowed by Dan John’s lighter, more frequent version.

Pavel’s version pairs great with A+A.

Here is Pavel’s version (Kindle location 1867):
  • Limited number of exercises - e.g. pull and push
  • Lift 2-3x/week
  • Keep reps in 1-5 range, favoring 2’s and 3’s
  • Keep volume around 10 reps, or 6 singles, in 2-6 sets
  • Rest 5 minutes between sets
  • Train in 80-95% of 1RM and always leave 1-2 reps in the tank (e.g. RPE 8-9)
  • Vary the intensity every session via cycling or less structured “advances and retreats”
  • In season, or as needed, cut volume by 1/2 to 2/3.
 

johanness

Level 1 Valued Member
Hi,
in the back of my head I find: strength and conditioning, separate them by blocks (e.g. 8+8 weeks).
In each block you dedicate 80% tot the main focus, the 20% to the other (roughly).
Reasoning was: by spezialization you can achive more progress in the particular disziplin, keeping the level is then relativly easy. While doing both at the time leads to slower progress.

Going from "back of head" to belly: I totally understand you idea, because it allows more variaty.

I guess the block-by-block method is the bus bench, the later the park bench.
 

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
According to Al Ciamp and Harald Motz your combination should work great @Rob.oc

I once asked Harald this question: "Would you actually recommend doing 2-4x S&S type training + 2x DLs and 3x Overhead BB Press + GTG pushups + 4x easy running in the same training cycle?"
Based on this article by Al Ciampa: PT: The U.S. Air Force Fitness Assessment, Longevity & Quality of Life – Be Well and Strong]

Harald Motz said:
This is kind of like I am training on a regular basis. Since about 4 months now I re-entered zercher squats, I do them almost daily 'easy strength'

I've build a rack, and for 6/7 weeks now one bar is always set up for the zercher, another for the bb press.

Almost daily I do around 10 +- total zerchersquats and 10-30 presses. Varying load and/or rep schemes a bit. Sometimes a few standing abwheel rollouts 5-10 total. This is my strength routine I want to stick some months. A session is about 7-20 minutes. Directly before the strength session I lately do (6rx4)x 1-3 series of jumps and (5rx4)x 1-3 series plyopushups.

Almost daily I do endurance rowing and or running, sometimes more rowing sometimes more running 30-90min at 115-130bpm mostly. Often I go on the rower or run a bit after the strength session.

2-3 alactic snatch sessions 20-40 repeats.

This is my general preparation of power, strength, endurance. The different parts ebb and flow into each other.

To alternate A+A sessions with endurance work is a time tested fool-proof highly effective and sustainable method: snatch powerfully with decent form as much as your hands like, when they don't like to snatch, go locomote.
Source: https://www.strongfirst.com/community/posts/?post_id=257387

These days his training is a bit different, but still following the same logic of combining minimalist programs.

In this logic you could follow Even Easier Strength (40 Day workout plan) or Easy Strength (like @Sean M posted above) 2-5x per week with 2-3 lifts and go by feel.

The quarantine plans by Fabio Zonin follow a similar logic, training push-pull-squat 3x per week and ballistics 2-3x per week. Add LSD to your liking :D
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
Hi all,

Been reading and am interested in trying A+A but also want to go back to some barbell training as I haven't really done much of it in the last 7 years and want to rebuild strength. Wondering if there's any issues mixing an A+A protocol with something like a 3day/week flavour of easy strength and possibly throw in some LSD as well. So if I was to start easy strength Monday, Wednesday, Friday. What would be the best days to add in A+A, how many times a week would be beneficial, could LSD be thrown in on same days, or would trying to fill my plate with the different strategies just contradict each other?
Dan John's Easy Strength includes deadlifts and swings. The deadlifts are in easy strength format, and the swings programmed in a conditioning manner, for higher reps, not in a power scheme.

Maybe an idea you could explore is to merge the DL and the swings and replace both of them by A+A heavy swings. So basically you'll be doing no DL, heavy swings and all else equal.

You could do the A+A swings 3 times per week, the typical schedule of A+A. The other 3 days you could do LSD. The other ES exercises you do 5/week as prescribed, ideally separate from cardio.

Just an idea.
 

Bauer

Level 6 Valued Member
Maybe a good way to start is trying the 2 strength days and 2 conditioning days each week per the article below and see how that works. I would think it would work just as well with barbells.

A similar idea would be to use this plan:

2x per week Zercher Squats, once working up to comfortably heavy triples, once the fives+ KB ballistics. 2x per week press and pullup ladders.

Replace the ballistic portion with A+A and maybe replace the handstand pushups with some kind of BB press. You could probably also play a bit with days on which you place the exercises.

And, to give you even more options, you could use a minimalist approach such as

... or the Daily Dose Deadlift plan
 

Alexander Halford

Level 7 Valued Member
There are a lot of good advices.
However, it highly depends on your working capacity. If you know how many work you can do daily and weekly, it will help you to plan better.
Once you know, that your work capacity is approximate X tons a week , you can decide how many times you can do this or that.
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
I think the following weekly formula works well:

1 barbell strength training day (squats, deadlifts, press, for example, 5x5) + 3 days A&A snatches (or Q&D snatches, or S&S) + 3 days aerobic conditioning work == SUCCESS!
Next spring, I will use a similar format:
  • 1x/week: DL+Press Faleev 5x5 (e.g. Strength Saturdays)
  • 2 days: A+A snatch
  • 1 day: 044 snatch (10/2 version)
  • 3 days: sub-MAF locomotion (can be combined with A+A or 044 days)
 

Rob.oc

First Post
Wow, this community is amazing! So many brilliant suggestions and answers, honestly thank you all for the input. I'm trying to digest it all...

What is your goal?
I've traditionally done a lot of LSD mixed with glycolytic style work and want to change things up and explore what A+A (and Q&D) can do. If I had a penny for every time I've pushed a glycolytic session slightly too hard, been in a hole for the next day and probably got a cold by the following weekend. I fell like - and it sounds like - there has to be a better way to improve yourself.

So I don't really have any solid goal as such. I read Q&D and feel like I'm not strong enough atm to reap the benefits of that properly, I can manage 044 snatches 5/4 but not 10/2 @ 24kg. An aerobic base is something that's always been important to me hence keeping the LSD. It's nearly October now so let's say I want to come into next summer with as much power and endurance as possible, but as this website suggests - maybe I should get strong first? I know S&S is probably an option and I'm not against it but I would like get back on Barbell stuff. Although I am a fan of the KB C&P... So many options!)

My number one priority is minimalism. I would gladly take short sessions 7 days a week over longer sessions a few times a week.

I've been forever trying to incorporate all three of these domains without over or under doing it and have settled on a three day rotation similar to what you're talking about.
I've seen a few rotations like this around the forums, do you mean to do A,B,C,A,B... rolling on consecutively or would there be a rest day in the week?

There are a lot of good advices.
However, it highly depends on your working capacity. If you know how many work you can do daily and weekly, it will help you to plan better.
Once you know, that your work capacity is approximate X tons a week , you can decide how many times you can do this or that.
What do you mean by work capacity? It's not a term I'm familiar with. Is there a way to work it out?

Next spring, I will use a similar format:
  • 1x/week: DL+Press Faleev 5x5 (e.g. Strength Saturdays)
  • 2 days: A+A snatch
  • 1 day: 044 snatch (10/2 version)
  • 3 days: sub-MAF locomotion (can be combined with A+A or 044 days)
This split sounds very interesting, do you think there'd be enough pure strength work in 1 day a week though, given I've neglected strength work for a number of years?


Thanks again guys! Lots of really good insights here. I really appreciate it!
 

vegpedlr

Level 6 Valued Member
For me the last few months it has been:

Day A: Simple Strength for Difficult Times (part 2)
Day B: Q&D or A&A or S&S (in 6-8 week blocks)
Day C: MAFF/LISS/LSD (whatever you want to call it) cycling, running or rucking 2-3 hours at a very easy pace. This I feels like my recovery day.
REPEAT
Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about! Glad to see it works. Here is what I’ve been mulling over if I wanted to train in a General way, not for specific sport or event performance I.e. a big race.

Two Day BB program like Tactical Barbell Fighter,
Two Days of moderate to long trail days, 90 min to 3 hrs
Two Days of “Conditioning” I.e. strength endurance, so some combination of swings, carries, rowing erg, rucking etc
 

Rumsmike

Level 4 Valued Member
I've seen a few rotations like this around the forums, do you mean to do A,B,C,A,B... rolling on consecutively or would there be a rest day in the week?
Yes, it's just keeps on rolling. I'll take the odd rest day if I feel I need it or for some reason life gets in the way. Normally though I'd just cut down the amount of endurance work if I feel I need a break.

Two Day BB program like Tactical Barbell Fighter,
Two Days of moderate to long trail days, 90 min to 3 hrs
Two Days of “Conditioning” I.e. strength endurance, so some combination of swings, carries, rowing erg, rucking etc
I'd love to hear how it works for you!
 

Alexander Halford

Level 7 Valued Member
What do you mean by work capacity? It's not a term I'm familiar with. Is there a way to work it out?
If you log your trainings, and if you work in the certain mode for X period of time, try to summarize your week's totals. For example, you did s&s 3 times a week with 32kg, and 2 times a week deadlift 5x5 with 150kg. You felt ok, recovered in time. So your weekly work capacity is ~10K kg, roughly 1/3 of it - ballistics. It is useful to separate ballistics from grinds, and from bodyweight work, so each capacity measured separately. It is very approximate evaluation, but it does the trick. So you'll know what you're capable of. You can also determine how much you can do at intense, regular, and easy week, to plan the waving, peaking and deloads.
A bit of advice, don't do running on the ballistics day, better do it separately, or at least couple of hours before or after rest at grind/basic strength days. For me, 3 A+A days, 2 strength + run, and 1 separate run worked just fine.
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
This split sounds very interesting, do you think there'd be enough pure strength work in 1 day a week though, given I've neglected strength work for a number of years?


Thanks again guys! Lots of really good insights here. I really appreciate it!
Yes. A+A heavy snatch also builds strength, or whatever you want to call it (hard to explain unless you’ve done it).

Per Faleev 5x5, I would also slot a light press day of 4 sets of 3, but this would also be the first thing to “go” if I was crunched for time. The priorities in my setup are the DL and press 5x5, 2x A+A, and 2 aerobic locomotion sessions.
 
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