A+A Weekly Volume

Marty

Triple-Digit Post Count
What would be an appropriate weekly number of repeats for increasing strength and power using A+A?

I’m trying to commit to A+A, but I’m having trouble organizing sessions. I know there’s a sense of randomness to each session/week, but I am the kind of person that’ll push myself too far too quick without a “do this” template.

I plan on using the repeat planner graciously given in this thread, but also need an expert programmer’s opinion on where to start: A+A repeat planner spreadsheet

Would the numbers of monthly lifts given in this article be appropriate for A+A repeats?
The 1TRM EV PS Program: Escalating Volume in the Plan Strong Style | StrongFirst

It was given as an example in the above thread. Just trying to get a feel before I jump in. Thanks so much!
 

Harald Motz

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
2019-11-09 08.55.43.png
So think 30 repeats for a session.
I took this from here:
A + A Training – Be Well and Strong
When we talking about snatch repeats we usually hit 5 reps. A session with 30 repeats would be 150 total reps.

You can make up an autoregulated customized long term 'A+A plan' with a handful of guidelines.
- train 2-4 times a week (then say you would hit a long term average of 3 times a week 3×30 repeats = 90 repeats could be a number per week. So a long term range per week could be something like 60 - 120 repeats per week). Fluctuate weekly volume for at least 20%
- fluctuate session per session at least 20%: for 30 repeats as an 'unfixed' average sessions can be in an unfixed range of 16 - 46 repeats.
- start with a weight you can snatch strong and powerful without form detoriation for 10-15 reps.

You can surely use the principles explained in Fabio's article.

having trouble organizing sessions. I know there’s a sense of randomness to each session/week, but I am the kind of person that’ll push myself too far too quick without a “do this” template.
The nice thing about A+A snatching is this self limiting fact: your enthusiasm will be be slowed done appropriately by your hands. If you like to snatch more get better at hand care. Your technique can be stellar, but the hands always get their beating, no way around it.
 

ShawnM

More than 2500 posts
@Marty - The spreadsheet you posted would work great for you, I would just count the number of repeats listed on the spread sheet as the number per side instead of the number for both sides. Day 1 is 8 rounds, just do 8 per side. It will get you the volume @Harald Motz is talking about and allow to the waves he refers to as well. I have used this spreadsheet this way to build volume on heavy swings and it has worked great!
 

Patrik Novák

Triple-Digit Post Count
View attachment 9298
So think 30 repeats for a session.
I took this from here:
A + A Training – Be Well and Strong
When we talking about snatch repeats we usually hit 5 reps. A session with 30 repeats would be 150 total reps.

You can make up an autoregulated customized long term 'A+A plan' with a handful of guidelines.
- train 2-4 times a week (then say you would hit a long term average of 3 times a week 3×30 repeats = 90 repeats could be a number per week. So a long term range per week could be something like 60 - 120 repeats per week). Fluctuate weekly volume for at least 20%
- fluctuate session per session at least 20%: for 30 repeats as an 'unfixed' average sessions can be in an unfixed range of 16 - 46 repeats.
- start with a weight you can snatch strong and powerful without form detoriation for 10-15 reps.

You can surely use the principles explained in Fabio's article.


The nice thing about A+A snatching is this self limiting fact: your enthusiasm will be be slowed done appropriately by your hands. If you like to snatch more get better at hand care. Your technique can be stellar, but the hands always get their beating, no way around it.
Hi Mr.Harald I see you also do KT trhuster and Clean Squat press.

Are you see some advatage compare to Snatches ?
 

Marty

Triple-Digit Post Count
View attachment 9298
So think 30 repeats for a session.
I took this from here:
A + A Training – Be Well and Strong
When we talking about snatch repeats we usually hit 5 reps. A session with 30 repeats would be 150 total reps.

You can make up an autoregulated customized long term 'A+A plan' with a handful of guidelines.
- train 2-4 times a week (then say you would hit a long term average of 3 times a week 3×30 repeats = 90 repeats could be a number per week. So a long term range per week could be something like 60 - 120 repeats per week). Fluctuate weekly volume for at least 20%
- fluctuate session per session at least 20%: for 30 repeats as an 'unfixed' average sessions can be in an unfixed range of 16 - 46 repeats.
- start with a weight you can snatch strong and powerful without form detoriation for 10-15 reps.

You can surely use the principles explained in Fabio's article.


The nice thing about A+A snatching is this self limiting fact: your enthusiasm will be be slowed done appropriately by your hands. If you like to snatch more get better at hand care. Your technique can be stellar, but the hands always get their beating, no way around it.
@Marty - The spreadsheet you posted would work great for you, I would just count the number of repeats listed on the spread sheet as the number per side instead of the number for both sides. Day 1 is 8 rounds, just do 8 per side. It will get you the volume @Harald Motz is talking about and allow to the waves he refers to as well. I have used this spreadsheet this way to build volume on heavy swings and it has worked great!
This is great advice, and exactly what I was looking for! Thanks for breaking it down so well!!!

Just curious for discussion sake...what’s the consensus on spreading the volume over more days per week? I assume it depends on your hands/recovery, but shorter and more frequent sessions could work better for certain schedules. I just finished 12 weeks of Q&D (044), so the next step would be A+A for a time, but the longer sessions are tougher to work around for someone with a newborn at home. Would S&S be a better choice for now, and A+A when schedule permits? I like to snatch, and I have found the results from snatching more in line with my vanity goals (Haha!) than swings and getups. Thoughts?
 

Sean M

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
@Marty I did one of Al’s experimental protocols last year, which had a few 50-60 repeat days. It was fine to split it into two sessions (in the same day), he said there is actually a lot of benefit in that.
 

Harald Motz

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
@Marty the cool thing about A+A is that you can adjust it to your life circumstances. More frequent shorter sessions take less time and overall less recovery. Longer volume sessions go a bit more towards power endurance and can take more recovery for the system and the hands. Another hallmark of A+A training is the volume accumulation over weeks and months this can be done either way shorter more frequent sessions or longer less often sessions.
This accumulation over long time yields most probably the adaptations in strength, power, ability to recover...

As you come from 12 weeks 044 you could use a 4kg or 8kg bell for A+A repeats.

Another way to 'organize' sessions could be with time: 20 - 60 minutes for a session.
Hi Mr.Harald I see you also do KT trhuster and Clean Squat press.

Are you see some advatage compare to Snatches ?
This double work is double the load, so it could be more of a 'strength' adaptation, the snatches more of 'power endurance'. The doubles are easier on the hands and single bell snatches are great for rotation-antirotation stimulus.
 

mikhael

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
You can make up an autoregulated customized long term 'A+A plan' with a handful of guidelines.
- train 2-4 times a week (then say you would hit a long term average of 3 times a week 3×30 repeats = 90 repeats could be a number per week. So a long term range per week could be something like 60 - 120 repeats per week). Fluctuate weekly volume for at least 20%
- fluctuate session per session at least 20%: for 30 repeats as an 'unfixed' average sessions can be in an unfixed range of 16 - 46 repeats.
- start with a weight you can snatch strong and powerful without form detoriation for 10-15 reps
Harald, does it apply to swings?
 

mikhael

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Sounds great, and when I choose A+A I don't have to go strictly with LE, for instance? I might as well fit it to the personal weekly schedule and have all the benefits?
 

mikhael

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
'LE', do you mean 'long endurance' work?
I meant Lazy Endurance.
If I remember correctly you have a tactical profession: so you would do cutting edge 'tactical periodization'...
Yes, you remember correctly. I'm currently running Fighter Pull-up Program along with Deadlift and Push-ups in order to get pull and push reps at the higher level. I'm considering A+A since it's a great tool to become more enduring. You mentioned 'tactical periodization', would you write more details about it?
 

Harald Motz

Quadruple-Digit Post Count
Certified Instructor
I meant Lazy Endurance.

Yes, you remember correctly. I'm currently running Fighter Pull-up Program along with Deadlift and Push-ups in order to get pull and push reps at the higher level. I'm considering A+A since it's a great tool to become more enduring. You mentioned 'tactical periodization', would you write more details about it?
the short term ,planning' is rather chaotic: when you can foresee your schedule (if you can it at all...) you can have sharp and almost random variation of intensity and volume.

That can imply to get into short periods of 'overtraining' say if you are on holidays. You could do some good volume of swing and/or snatch work on consecutive days. Your recovery from day to day gets incomplete quickly. This can stimulate better ability to recover.

On the other hand you can be on a mission for some time or simply engaged with very little training time, where you must be not afraid to loose everything. You might be back on track in one or two sessions.

Intensity can (should) also be waved. If you use say two (may be three) bell sizes.

So there are some combinations:

medium volume - medium intensity
low - medium
medium - low
low - low
high - high
low - high

@Pavel Macek might have a few words, as actually does this kind of work as you can see in his log.
He has times where he travels for a week or two and always comes back...
 
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Pavel Macek

More than 2500 posts
Master Certified Instructor
I just answered similar question in my log (referring to some of my latest test programs):

Random waving of intensity, volume, and density: same exercises, but always different weights, total number of reps, and rest between sets. I am testing few different blueprints (using dice throw to randomly determine all above), and so far with great success. Please refer to Pavel's new book The Quick and the Dead, especially the part about Delta 20 principle.​
 
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