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Kettlebell A+A what a hell effect?

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Patrik Novák

Patrik Novák

Level 3 Valued Member
Greetings to all the strong ... I would like to discuss one question that has me even longer.
I have been training consistently and without crashes since I was 12 years old and I have been through various sports for 17 years ...

at the beginning I want to spoil who can and will contribute to the experience with the views because there are more experienced people here than I

Like Harald Motz, Pavel Macek, Al Ciampa, whom I thank for so much, and also Snowman and many others who have shown me the right direction ...

I've tried a lot of training protocols from the barbell workout, only with my own weight to kettlbell who started in 2010 with TGU and swings and up to 2017 Simple & Sinister with 40kg.

then I had a break and I didn't know what else and until I found the article by Harald Motz about some A + A hmm I didn't know what it is ...
only snatches and LSD I was skeptical except S&S nothing worked without damaging my body sore feeling and overtraining.Everybody who serve know that training for Service is very unique because one can pull on a deadlifth 500-550 lbs or do crazy circuit with barbell sandbags and so and it will not help him in firing ,accelerated movement or just in pull up test push up or runs but the question that most interested me was how to stay out of service fit for my family and manage work on my family farm.

Then I starret A+A with limited informtion and after first 12 week I was I was shocked when I had an accelerated load run test
at 15 km plus helmet and rifle and vest and backpack... no training run! I've had the best time in my entire career what a hell?Nowdays I do my regular A+A with 36kg or 40kg bell for almost two and half year day after day week after week and so just locomotíve work with right breathing from Buteyko and Al Ciampa advice and mr.Snowman really help me with my protocol and my life is change drastically.

What you think are here some with similar experiences with feelings etc?only snatches no squats no complex exercises except snatches and improvements in everything? I feel a lot of the things I have done so far have just filled my head now everything is simply but effective as magic :)

Thanks appreciate it
Pat
 
Interesting and nice to hear good results from your A+A training!
I live in Sweden and work in the fire service. I'm hopeful that this kind of training will build funcional strength and endurance for years to come. At the moment I never felt stronger. Have done S&S and Q&D seriosluy for about a year.

I've just started A+A snatches (5reps with apx. 1-1:30 min rest) and working my weekly volume up with the 32kg bell. Waving volume around 12-30 repeats, 2-4 times a week. Usually the skin on my hands tell med when the session is over. Even though I use chalk it's very clear when it's time to stop. I'm planning to do A+A at least for 12 weeks. Then maybe switch to Q&D again, combined with some grinds and LSD/MAF aerobic training.

I've noted how fresh I feel after a high volume session. No soreness the days after. Ready to go. My shoulders feel stronger than ever. Grip and forearms too.
In the "in between days" I usually do some grinds like zercher squats 3x3 or 5x5, TGU's, complementary hip and glute excercises, rowing and running below MAF and an occasional ABC-complex 10-20 minutes.
I've gotten so much info on this forum. Thank you all!
I'll keep you updated for more WTHE.
 
Stefan Hedborg said:
Interesting and nice to hear good results from your A+A training!
I live in Sweden and work in the fire service. I'm hopeful that this kind of training will build funcional strength and endurance for years to come. At the moment I never felt stronger. Have done S&S and Q&D seriosluy for about a year.

I've just started A+A snatches (5reps with apx. 1-1:30 min rest) and working my weekly volume up with the 32kg bell. Waving volume around 12-30 repeats, 2-4 times a week. Usually the skin on my hands tell med when the session is over. Even though I use chalk it's very clear when it's time to stop. I'm planning to do A+A at least for 12 weeks. Then maybe switch to Q&D again, combined with some grinds and LSD/MAF aerobic training.

I've noted how fresh I feel after a high volume session. No soreness the days after. Ready to go. My shoulders feel stronger than ever. Grip and forearms too.
In the "in between days" I usually do some grinds like zercher squats 3x3 or 5x5, TGU's, complementary hip and glute excercises, rowing and running below MAF and an occasional ABC-complex 10-20 minutes.
I've gotten so much info on this forum. Thank you all!
I'll keep you updated for more WTHE.
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Yeah nice man ...I have similar experiences its unbelievable.

When we take it so basically it doesn't matter what a person adds to A + A but most of all it is still accumulating volume and snatches are perfect for it.

Best
 
My thought is that it definitely depends on your goals. If general fitness is what you're after then A+A is the best type of training I have done.

Generally the opposition to such a program with it's minimal movements is boredom. Another complaint I've seen is, "all I'm doing is snatches and LSD and my bench press went to hell". Having said that I have heard of a few who have done A+A and have seen other lifts increase but I would believe that number to be limited.

I can tell you that when I did A+A seldom did I feel beat up. I have a problem with pulling the reins back and would increase weight too quickly in the snatch. I only had a 55 lb and a 32K bell at the time. The 55 lb would become a bit light and I would rush into the 32K. Rather than gradually building into the 32K I would over do quantity and begin to feel beat up. This wasn't the programs fault, it was mine.

5 yr ago I decided to run a half marathon. Before this the furthest I had ever ran at one time was about 10 miles. Training for the marathon all I did was A+A swings for anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes, one 40 minute MAF run per week and the other a longer MAF run adding an additional 5 minutes to the length each week. I worked up to 80 minutes. I ran all but the last two miles of the half at MAF and finished in 2 hr 17 min. I was 55 yr old at the time.

I was happy with where that training took me.
 
banzaiengr said:
My thought is that it definitely depends on your goals. If general fitness is what you're after then A+A is the best type of training I have done.

Generally the opposition to such a program with it's minimal movements is boredom. Another complaint I've seen is, "all I'm doing is snatches and LSD and my bench press went to hell". Having said that I have heard of a few who have done A+A and have seen other lifts increase but I would believe that number to be limited.

I can tell you that when I did A+A seldom did I feel beat up. I have a problem with pulling the reins back and would increase weight too quickly in the snatch. I only had a 55 lb and a 32K bell at the time. The 55 lb would become a bit light and I would rush into the 32K. Rather than gradually building into the 32K I would over do quantity and begin to feel beat up. This wasn't the programs fault, it was mine.

5 yr ago I decided to run a half marathon. Before this the furthest I had ever ran at one time was about 10 miles. Training for the marathon all I did was A+A swings for anywhere from 20 to 45 minutes, one 40 minute MAF run per week and the other a longer MAF run adding an additional 5 minutes to the length each week. I worked up to 80 minutes. I ran all but the last two miles of the half at MAF and finished in 2 hr 17 min. I was 55 yr old at the time.

I was happy with where that training took me.
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Interested experiences and I think you are just right.
General preparation is what I looking for.
For me is first and foremost reason why I train.
 
A+A snatches made the bulk of my training for both SFG II in 2017 and for SFB in 2019. Of course I also trained the required moves for each, but with a lot less volume than I would otherwise expect to need. Heavy A+A snatches (plus barbell strength, leading into 2019) built the solid foundation that I could then easily supplement with additional specific training. It also helps a great deal with stamina to make it through a cert weekend without struggling.
 
Anna C said:
A+A snatches made the bulk of my training for both SFG II in 2017 and for SFB in 2019. Of course I also trained the required moves for each, but with a lot less volume than I would otherwise expect to need. Heavy A+A snatches (plus barbell strength, leading into 2019) built the solid foundation that I could then easily supplement with additional specific training. It also helps a great deal with stamina to make it through a cert weekend without struggling.
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Thanks Mrs. Anna appreciate your personal experiences
 
A 'WTH', not a little one is the fact that I was able to do a lot of A+A snatches over the years without getting injured. In fact even the delicate joints like the elbow and shoulder seem to love it. When I began the A+A path a bit over 5 years ago I had my doubt in that regard.
 
Harald Motz said:
A 'WTH', not a little one is the fact that I was able to do a lot of A+A snatches over the years without getting injured. In fact even the delicate joints like the elbow and shoulder seem to love it. When I began the A+A path a bit over 5 years ago I had my doubt in that regard.
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Thank you Harald first and foremost you are trully inspired me and I Thank for your help in getting started with A + A, you clearly helped me a lot and was helpful.

when you are here :) I have a question how many sets you do in one A + A protocol ?

Al Ciampa do in average 40-50 sets I think
 
Nice work Harald. If I did that, my elbows would have to be amputated from the tendonitis
 
BrianCF said:
Nice work Harald. If I did that, my elbows would have to be amputated from the tendonitis
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As I stated above, so far I never had joint issues with the snatch. I did some 5rx20 with 48kg...or at some point 5rx20 almost any day in a row with 40kg for almost four weeks. For the hands it is not always fun. Usually with high volume high frequency snatching the first repeats are the toughest it then gets not really better, but the perception if discomfort gets say 'comfortable'

Maine-ah KB said:
that heart rate graph is equally impressive then the sheer volume of snatches.
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With this session I was surprised, that my heart rate stayed quite stable with 'on the minute'. In the end it is 'just' a function of weight, number of reps and length of rest. I like 'heartrate monitoring'. A long dosed A+A effort is in my book a great way to develop the aerobic system. Maybe like a long run but totally different.... Short bursts of faster twitch fibers and recovery via just breathing in and out.

Surely I want to get some long(ish) sessions on a weekend day in here and there in the future.
 
Harald Motz said:
last friday I went for 120 sets on the minute for 5reps with 32kg. That was 2h of snatching at a nice overall aerobic recovery for the alactic work. A+A is an exploration.
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?

I'm imagining somewhere around 60 minutes, you'd be snatching with one hand and munching a piece of pizza with the other...

Do you ever do any competitions or performance tests? Obviously you're seeing crazy good SAID on the A+A work, I'd be curious where you might be seeing performance carryover.
 
I also cannot thank @Harald Motz enough for starting that A+A thread and posting his videos and results. Not only the snatch, but also the LSD training. He is the main reason why I am through my second pass of A+A snatching, after a break during tennis season last summer, and why I do a bit of jogging also, and the results are amazing.

Now, if he could just stop being so superhuman... I was proud of myself for doing 40 repeats of 5 with the 32 in 40 min on Wednesday, and I now see that not only Harald did 3 times the volume I did with the same kettlebell at the same rate, but his heart rate is also much lower than mine. I don't have a HR monitor, but the old pulses on the neck for 10 seconds X 6 method gives me a HR of 140-145 when I do these snatches EMOM. Just kidding obviously. He is an inspiration.

As to the WTH effect, I had the opportunity to go cross-country skiing for the first time in 10 years last weekend as my daughter, who just turned 9, wanted to try it. After teaching how to ski to my daughter for 90 minutes, my wife took over and I skied a 4.2 miles trail on mostly flat and rolling terrain in 40 minutes, and I was not very well waxed as I did not get much glide on the flats. I had good grip on the uphills though ;). My training this winter was 6 weeks of Q&D (mix of 24 and 32), followed by 10 weeks of A+A snatches (about 300 snatches a week, waving volume, with the 32 in 3 sessions) and about 60 mins of MAF running on the treadmill in 2 sessions a week (only during the A+A training). I did a bit of easy strength goblet squats and presses also, but mostly to be with my daughter when she lifts twice a week. What is amazing is that this is the speed I was going when I was 35-36 (now 49), and trained much more: skied twice a week in the winter+water-polo twice a week at least, plus rugby and swimming in the summer. Basically, I did nothing ski-specific and trained about 4 hours a week and matched my performance when I trained almost twice as much with some specific training when I was 10 years younger. This is obviously not an elite level, but I was really surprised of the pace I could keep on the skis after all that time. I was expecting to do the trail in closer to 1 hour.
 
WhatWouldHulkDo said:
?

I'm imagining somewhere around 60 minutes, you'd be snatching with one hand and munching a piece of pizza with the other...

Do you ever do any competitions or performance tests? Obviously you're seeing crazy good SAID on the A+A work, I'd be curious where you might be seeing performance carryover.
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I don't do competitions usually, but did two TSC in 2018. At my first I was able to pull a beltless 2,5 bw without preparation, about half a year no barbell exposure.

Nov 2017 I was on therapy for almost 12 weeks. I took a 48 for S&S and a 40 for A+A snatches with me. When I got home I was pleased to do this:


Summer 2018 I was on my first 5 day zen seshin:
Each day (45min zazen then 15min kinhin then a second45min) x3 and two 45min 'easy zazen'. I was able to sit upright in all sessions but the soft zafu-cushion can get 'hard as hell' - being in good physical condition helps a lot with that. Aspects of zazen have a lot of similarities to my training. When Sawaki Roshi was asked: "zazen-what is it good for? he answered "good for nothing". That does not mean zazen/training has no effects...lately I do zazen very rarely, but when I sit I just sit, when I snatch I just snatch, when I run slow I just run slow, when I row 10k in 40min I just row 10k in 40min.

The A+A philosophy is probably the closest approach to "practice". Accumulation of 'good training karma' - if it makes any sense.

The power alactics is one side of the coin, doing endurance/locomotion work the other side. Easy aerobics lets me absorb volumes of power work. Lately I am doing some high frequency high intensity single rep barbell work with the press, hexbar dl and some squats for quite some weeks now. I am fairly convinced that concurrent endurance work lets me recover from that also.

I am a Jack of power, strength endurance trades and not disappointed to have no "success"...but keep on doing anyway.
 
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