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Kettlebell A+A

Brian T

Level 4 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
What exactly is A+A? It’s referred to in a lot of threads, but I haven’t been able to find an article here that really explains what it is.
 
Pavel is releasing a book about it soon
 
Some helpful links here:


I particularly found this thread helpful:

 
Can anyone summarise the actual programming in a couple of sentences along with an example program / weight selection / progression?

Something like the below:
Program for intermediates who have a solid foundation of training. Take a 10RM swing/snatch/C+J bell, do 3 reps EMOM for up to 30 repeats. Progress by adding sets up to 30 then increase reps to 5, then do the same again and increase bell size next time.
 
Can anyone summarise the actual programming in a couple of sentences along with an example program / weight selection / progression?

Something like the below:
Program for intermediates who have a solid foundation of training. Take a 10RM swing/snatch/C+J bell, do 3 reps EMOM for up to 30 repeats. Progress by adding sets up to 30 then increase reps to 5, then do the same again and increase bell size next time.
Not a bad start...
I would;
Remove bell specification, rep quantity, and limit of sets. Expand on EMOM with E30OT30 and/or untimed set intervals.
Add comment regarding working below or approaching threshold where glycolysis occurs, e.g. 10 to 20 seconds of work.
Focus on power and heavy bell selection.
 
Can anyone summarise the actual programming in a couple of sentences along with an example program / weight selection / progression?

Something like the below:
Program for intermediates who have a solid foundation of training. Take a 10RM swing/snatch/C+J bell, do 3 reps EMOM for up to 30 repeats. Progress by adding sets up to 30 then increase reps to 5, then do the same again and increase bell size next time.
See the response from @Anna C to a similar question in this thread, which I found most instructive. Thanks Anna.

 
Can anyone summarise the actual programming in a couple of sentences along with an example program / weight selection / progression?

Something like the below:
Program for intermediates who have a solid foundation of training. Take a 10RM swing/snatch/C+J bell, do 3 reps EMOM for up to 30 repeats. Progress by adding sets up to 30 then increase reps to 5, then do the same again and increase bell size next time.

Swings/Snatches:
Select a bell with which you can do 4x10 reps powerfully ~every two minutes.
Here is the basic idea of A+A: Do something hard (i.e. 5 hardstyle max power snatches w/ 24kg kettlebell), rest for about a minute, and then repeat. Again and again. Train 2-4 days per week and do 15-60 repeats per session, varying the duration for each session somewhat randomly. Progress volume over time as hands and body can tolerate. It can be a very "complete" way to train... There were weeks at a time where literally all I did for training was heavy kettlebell snatch in A+A format. But most people say now it pairs best with LSD cardio like running or rucking on other training days.

Classic A+A (Al Ciampa style):
  • Sets of 5, untimed
  • wait until you pass the talk test (don't rush!)
  • sessions of 20-60 minutes, until you have had enough, or RPE exceeds 8.
  • Vary volume from session to session.
  • Move up in weight, when you can do sessions of 60 minutes regularly.

Timed A+A (Pavel style, see this article):
  • Sets of 5 on the minute every minute.
  • Repeat until you fail to pass the talk test, exceed RPE of 8, or reach 30 minutes (or 20 minutes if followed by another exercise, or go up to 40-60 minutes over time).
  • Then switch to 5 reps every 30 seconds (everything else stays the same).
  • When you reach the target time or stall, go up in weight.
That being said, there could be a lot of variations: Go up to sets of 7, have a peaking phase with sets of 10 OTM, start with sets of 3 OTM or every 30 seconds, etc.

LCCJ:
See this article:

For timed A+A and LCCJ programming, see this great product (on sale today - combined with the code "Founders2023" you can get if for $ 25):
 
Last edited:
Swings/Snatches:
Select a bell with which you can do 4x10 reps powerfully ~every two minutes.


Classic A+A (Al Ciampa style):
  • Sets of 5, untimed
  • wait until you pass the talk test (don't rush!)
  • sessions of 20-60 minutes, until you have had enough, or RPE exceeds 8.
  • Vary volume from session to session.
  • Move up in weight, when you can do sessions of 60 minutes regularly.

Timed A+A (Pavel style, see this article):
  • Sets of 5 on the minute every minute.
  • Repeat until you fail to pass the talk test, exceed RPE of 8, or reach 30 minutes (or 20 minutes if followed by another exercise, or go up to 40-60 minutes over time).
  • Then switch to 5 reps every 30 seconds (everything else stays the same).
  • When you reach the target time or stall, go up in weight.
That being said, there could be a lot of variations: Go up to sets of 7, have a peaking phase with sets of 10 OTM, start with sets of OTM or every 30 seconds, etc.

LCCJ:
See this article:

For timed A+A and LCCJ programming, see this great product (on sale today - combined with the code "Founders2023" you can get if for $ 25):

This is a great summary and menu of choices!

I stated in that other quoted thread that Al Ciampa was the originator of A+A.... not quite true... he is credited by Pavel of originating that term, AND he worked with Pavel to develop some of the early A+A swing protocols. But the method itself goes back farther, to Pavel's research into Swedish, Soviet, and other training methods and is fully fleshed out in Strong Endurance seminar. (BTW there is one next weekend in Miami, FL or online! Link here) The application of these methods has since been developed into some of the other options and program offerings shown above.

I've been training in weightlifting for 3 years now, and I still constantly use the lessons I learned from A+A kettlebell experience every session. For instance, from last Monday's session:
Power Snatch: 26x5, 31x4, 34x3x4​
Power Clean: 35x5, 42x4, 45.5x3x4​
Press: 18x5, 22.5x5, 27x5, 34x3, 38x3, 43x5​
Back Squat: 35x5, 41x5, 49x3, 61.5x3, 70x1, 78x5​

So that's 23 work sets, each being similar to an A+A repeat, with an average of 2-3 min of recovery between sets. I don't look at a timer as I train. I'm extremely "tuned in" to exactly how long to rest and when I'm ready to go again. I gained that ability that from running A+A programs. Other similar aspects -- being aware of the speed of the movement, simultaneously focusing on correct movement but also powerful execution, fine tuning between reps, attending to a good set-up, shaking off tension between sets, good recovery breathing, etc....
 
Swings/Snatches:
Select a bell with which you can do 4x10 reps powerfully ~every two minutes.


Classic A+A (Al Ciampa style):
  • Sets of 5, untimed
  • wait until you pass the talk test (don't rush!)
  • sessions of 20-60 minutes, until you have had enough, or RPE exceeds 8.
  • Vary volume from session to session.
  • Move up in weight, when you can do sessions of 60 minutes regularly.

Timed A+A (Pavel style, see this article):
  • Sets of 5 on the minute every minute.
  • Repeat until you fail to pass the talk test, exceed RPE of 8, or reach 30 minutes (or 20 minutes if followed by another exercise, or go up to 40-60 minutes over time).
  • Then switch to 5 reps every 30 seconds (everything else stays the same).
  • When you reach the target time or stall, go up in weight.
That being said, there could be a lot of variations: Go up to sets of 7, have a peaking phase with sets of 10 OTM, start with sets of OTM or every 30 seconds, etc.

LCCJ:
See this article:

For timed A+A and LCCJ programming, see this great product (on sale today - combined with the code "Founders2023" you can get if for $ 25):
Real great writeup.
 
@Anna C this was your response in the other thread that I learned so much from:

Would you mind expanding on what to look for to progress weight / reps / density and how to decide which (of weight / reps / density) to progress
Sure... keeping in mind I'm a practitioner with experience, but not a designer of the programs.

Let's say I could pass a 5-min snatch test (100 reps, unlimited hand switches) with a 16kg. And I could snatch a 20kg for 6 or 8 sets of 5 reps, but it was pretty hard. And I could snatch a 24kg for 1-3 reps on the good side on a strong day. This is about where I was when I started A+A snatching, and that was after 2 years of S&S, SFG, and A+A swing protocols. But I'd guess this is probably a common starting point for most men, also.

Training 3-4 times per week, I would spend several weeks snatching 16kg for sets of 5, always switching hands each set/repeat. For me, and others who trained snatches to pass the 5-min test, the nuances of the movement get lost in the rush to gain efficiency to pass the snatch test. So you have to slow things way down and pay a lot more attention to every part of the movement. Careful, precise, powerful... but taking time with set-up, pausing in lockout, being patient in the backswing. Fixing alignment, learning to tame the arc, figuring out how to use the breath, paying attention to the rooting of the feet. All that and more. Taking plenty of rest between each set/repeat... at least a minute, maybe 2 minutes. Practice delivering a powerful movement, but don't be too concerned with the time it takes to do the repeat. Get the movement down.

Then I would start of add some repeats of the 20kg. A few more each session, working up to 20 repeats of 5 with the 20kg, with more rest between repeats as needed. I'd start to be more efficient with the delivery of the 5 reps, so just a brief pause in lockout, knocking out the 5 reps fast but solid. This might take another few weeks. One day I might be feeling good and push it to 30 repeats, or 150 reps total. The next session I might just do 10 repeats. I'd keep track of the total weekly volume and see it going up over time. Never pushing past what the hands can take and taking good care of calluses. Hand tears will set you back a couple of weeks at least.

Working up again to the 24kg for repeats, again mixing in with the 20kg over several weeks until 20 repeats with the 24kg is a solid session, not too hard but not easy. I think this is when you can really get some good out of it. The technique is good, the body can handle some volume, you know how to generate power, and you're using a weight heavy enough to require a significant power.

So now, a proper 6- week protocol with the 24kg snatches in repeats of 5. Here you can get creative -- Al has one protocol that mixes weight, so I was doing 20, 24, and 28 alternately and mixed in each session -- but a basic protocol would use all the same weight, and that works too. So let's say it's all with the 24kg. Week 1 might have sessions of 16, 24, 20, 28 repeats. Week 2, 3, and 4 similar but slightly increasing total weekly volume, and the longest session of the week pushing into the 30s for repeat numbers. Some weeks with 3 sessions. Week 5 a deload week with half the volume and at least one easy session of 12 or 14 repeats. Week 6 back to week 4 volume and maybe an extra long session with 36 or 40 repeats.

The numbers for the repeats I may not have quite right because they are based on Plan Strong programming, the Delta 20 principle I think it is, and I haven't attended that. So I'm just approximating.

After all that volume, you'll notice your muscles are harder, maybe some hypertrophy, maybe some fat loss. Conditioning is good and HR drops a lot quicker after repeats. Grip is super strong and enduring. Legs are strong and powerful. Shoulders are open and stable.

So on it goes -- you can progress onward to snatching 28, 32, even 36, and 40... several men have. All with a similar progression scheme. Sometimes following a dedicated 6 week program, other times just progressing organically and autoregulating.

It's a style of training that can literally go on for years, and still keep delivering benefits.

So you might notice that I didn't change the reps. These can also be done -- up to 10 reps can work, but the effects are a little different. It goes beyond the alactic "interval" and a bit more into glycolysis. So for pure A+A, stick with 5 reps, at least with snatches. But nothing "bad" happens if you go beyond 5. Some say it's more hypertrophy-inducing.

You'll also notice that I really didn't address density. The rest periods may decrease a bit... but not a lot. EMOM is about as fast as it gets, and mostly it doesn't even get that fast for pure A+A. You just are able to do a harder work set -- snatch the 28kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec, where you used to snatch the 20kg for 5 reps and recover in 1 min 15 sec. You won't really see your recovery get significantly faster, like down to 30 or 40 sec. It just doesn't happen. Therefore, for pure A+A, stick with longer rests. Now, some people start out needing a LOT of rest, like 3 minutes for the HR to come down, and they will see significant improvement over time as they get aerobically fitter. LSD cardio can really help this transformation, and may even be required.

TL;DR: You progress weight, and total repeats. :) And this may continue over many, many weeks and years.
 
Apologies for the derail, but could one benefit from and progress with a single weekly A+A session of 40-60 minutes, when the goal is to increase general energy system function? Or is it simply too little?
 
Apologies for the derail, but could one benefit from and progress with a single weekly A+A session of 40-60 minutes, when the goal is to increase general energy system function? Or is it simply too little?
from my experience - 1 session per week - of heavy snatches could easily prove to be enough to maintain my lean mass.
but to progress, I might need to add in a second day - maybe a light day even would work.
and if there's anything else you're doing - practicing your sport, or greasing the groove for a minute at a time, otherwise throughout the week, that definitely helps.

When I'm completely sedentary otherwise, I've had 1 snatch session in a week, which maybe got me by, but I really noticed good solid maintenance and a little progress with 2 sessions a week. maybe a bigger session Hour long session on the weekend, and a light 20 minute session during the week some time.
 
Apologies for the derail, but could one benefit from and progress with a single weekly A+A session of 40-60 minutes, when the goal is to increase general energy system function? Or is it simply too little?
I don’t know, but if you’re focus is strength, and you added in one long session a week, surely there’d be no downside. If anything it’d be good practice.
 
Apologies for the derail, but could one benefit from and progress with a single weekly A+A session of 40-60 minutes, when the goal is to increase general energy system function? Or is it simply too little?
My guess is that it would be enough to increase.... function. Maybe not specifically "general energy system function." Along with other training, that might be accomplished and that weekly session might complement the overall picture of energy systems function... But even so, it will increase muscular endurance, your skill, your ability to work and recover, perhaps your power output, etc... And one other thing I failed to mention at the end of my post above, I think A+A has a lot of mental benefits. Each repeat, quickly reflect on how it went, what you might improve, and how it felt. Implement fine tuning for the next repeat. It makes for a great feedback cycle within the training session. This seems to have multiple mental benefits for your practice.
 
Each repeat, quickly reflect on how it went, what you might improve, and how it felt. Implement fine tuning for the next repeat. It makes for a great feedback cycle within the training session. This seems to have multiple mental benefits for your practice.
Good point. It invites deliberate practice, which is crucial for mastery. Contrary to prematurely going for Timed Simple or a challenging Crossfit WOD, trying to get the reps in at all costs without having the time and mental space to make adjustments.
 
Anna when you run AA how did you find recovery? Were you able to do other activities? Were you 3 days a week?
 
Good point. It invites deliberate practice, which is crucial for mastery. Contrary to prematurely going for Timed Simple or a challenging Crossfit WOD, trying to get the reps in at all costs without having the time and mental space to make adjustments.
@Brett Jones has spoken about the deliberate practice that is Iron Cardio where you focus on each rep. Now there’s a deadly combination, alternating IC and A+A…
 
Anna when you run AA how did you find recovery? Were you able to do other activities? Were you 3 days a week?
Mostly 3 days a week, yes. Sometimes 4, with one being a light day. I was always able to also do a medium-hard bike ride on the weekends, Other days mostly rest.

Mostly I was able to run the programs as written, and fitness did increase. Sometimes recovery was off. I had a bit of brain fog on days I trained in the morning. I have a desk job that requires some analysis and actual thinking, and many days I just didn't have the brainpower for what I needed to do, especially in the morning. Not sure if some nutrition adjustments or something else would helped. I did also find out that I have mild sleep apnea and I think that was affecting me in those years (got a CPAP 2 years ago and sleep better... but also more, working from home these days). Physically I did pretty well -- had a few nagging tweaks from time to time, and a few pulled muscles (biceps, calf; from running) that required me to back off for a little while, but nothing I would call an injury.

So how "hard" is A+A training overall? As hard as you make it. With mostly coaching guidance from @Al Ciampa throughout the various program I did, I made it fairly hard, and that got results. I could have backed off on weight or volume, apparently doing the same thing, but not getting as good results. Just like all other types of training, sometimes it can be hard to find that balance. But that's part of what you get in published programs vs. just free-styling and autoregulating; some guidance in determining how hard it should be.
 
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