Barbell A few questions re PTTP and The Bear.

[Mosca]

STATS:
MALE - 27 - 81KG - 23%BF - 170CM
PTTP - Working Weights: Deads 95kgs, Bench 60kg.
Doing both lifts mon-friday

Hello all. A few questions.

1. How often to increase weight if on a step loading cycle? I worked my way up to 105kg for 5 reps and then the subsequent 90% of that weight for the next set, but after doing that once I felt my strength actually worsened and I had to lower the working weight back down to 90kgs and start again from there. From what I've read in PTTP, this sequence is actually preferred? The same thing happened to bench. Made it to a working weight of 65kgs but then felt very weak after hitting this and had to drop back down to 55kg.
2. In what increments should I increase the weight? 2.5kgs or 5kgs?
3. Given that I'm really not strong at all (not sure why, have had testosterone checked, all fine), would it be to my detriment to do some Bear sets after the normal PTTP sets? Or should I wait until I'm a bit stronger.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[Gorg01326]

Hi,
from memory pavel recommends a 5 pound increase (anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) so that’s closer to 2.5kg. I would stick to The normal pttp for a while for your strength gain as the bear is more suited to hypertrophy, if you give pttp time it will work. I found the main thing which helped build strength with the program was really concentrating on creating the full body tension following what pavel recommends.

hope this helps.

gorg

 

[LukeV]

Because PTTP is five consecutive days of workout, recovery is a key issue. It's unclear from your post whether you are reaching some kind of max on day five, then feeling weak even after your rest days, or maxing, say, on day 3 and requiring the lighter weight on the days immediately following. You are not very strong yet and that's not a problem. Maybe you just lack some confidence. You could re-program for a simple wave, starting light on day 1 and building up to your heaviest weight on day 5, then next week start a little higher, aiming for a new max weekly or thereabouts. Try that for a few weeks then look to the other examples of waving in the book. I'm a fan of minimum increments so 2.5kg jumps is what I would use but I wouldn't worry too much about 5kg if that's all that is available. And I wouldn't recommend The Bear because that's a two (or three) day program and I think you would benefit more from the higher frequency of the standard PTTP.

 

[Mosca]

Because PTTP is five consecutive days of workout, recovery is a key issue. It's unclear from your post whether you are reaching some kind of max on day five, then feeling weak even after your rest days, or maxing, say, on day 3 and requiring the lighter weight on the days immediately following. You are not very strong yet and that's not a problem. Maybe you just lack some confidence. You could re-program for a simple wave, starting light on day 1 and building up to your heaviest weight on day 5, then next week start a little higher, aiming for a new max weekly or thereabouts. Try that for a few weeks then look to the other examples of waving in the book. I'm a fan of minimum increments so 2.5kg jumps is what I would use but I wouldn't worry too much about 5kg if that's all that is available. And I wouldn't recommend The Bear because that's a two (or three) day program and I think you would benefit more from the higher frequency of the standard PTTP.

Thank you for your response. I had a feeling my weakness may be a mental thing, as you say. I think I may have jumped up the weight a little too quickly. I went from lifting 100kgs on deads quite comfortably, but when I moved it up to 105kgs, it felt anything but, and I felt pretty weak the following days, and had to lower it to 90kgs.
"It's unclear from your post whether you are reaching some kind of max on day five, then feeling weak even after your rest days, or maxing, say, on day 3 and requiring the lighter weight on the days immediately following."
I was sticking to the same weight for about two weeks, then jumped to 105kgs once 100 felt comfortable. Perhaps I should have stayed there a little longer?
Thanks again for the response.

 

[marcelotine]

@Mosca Did you read the book?? It is available online and it is a very quick read - at the very least, read the programming section. Right now you are definitely not following the program, which is why it is "not working". There is no version of this program where you repeat the same work set for 10 workouts, which is pretty much a full cycle - which is what you have described to have done.

Here is what I suggest - stop what you are doing, and the read the book and then follow the program - I guarantee you will see success.

You need to start with a low enough weight and add weight to the bar every workout so that by the end of the cycle (a cycle can be 8 to 15 workouts long) you can set some personal records. If you don't start with low enough weights, you can't build momentum, and you can't progress - likewise, if you are not adding weight to the bar every workout (linear progression) or every other workout you are not following the program. The step cycle calls for using the same weight for perhaps 2 or 3 workouts, not 10!

I recommend you abort what you are doing, and start a new cycle. Keep it simple, and make it a 10 work out cycle. Work out every day, 5 days a week and then take days off. Use linear progression, i.e., add weight to the bar every workout. Now, set a goal and work backwards. I suggest you start very conservative and set your goal as 110kg, meaning that is the weight you will attempt as your work set at the end of your cycle, on your tenth work out. So your starting weight on day 1 should be 87.5. Every work out you will be adding 2.5 kg. If the weight feels too light just do 2 work sets as opposed to 1 work set and a back off set at 90% of work set. On day 10, granted you finish the program successfully, which I am certain you will - congratulate yourself, take 2 days off and start your new cycle 5 kg heavier than the last cycle... repeat the process and keep going. After 3-4 cycles you can decide if you want to do the bear....

 

[Mosca]

@Mosca Did you read the book?? It is available online and it is a very quick read - at the very least, read the programming section. Right now you are definitely not following the program, which is why it is "not working". There is no version of this program where you repeat the same work set for 10 workouts, which is pretty much a full cycle - which is what you have described to have done.

Here is what I suggest - stop what you are doing, and the read the book and then follow the program - I guarantee you will see success.

You need to start with a low enough weight and add weight to the bar every workout so that by the end of the cycle (a cycle can be 8 to 15 workouts long) you can set some personal records. If you don't start with low enough weights, you can't build momentum, and you can't progress - likewise, if you are not adding weight to the bar every workout (linear progression) or every other workout you are not following the program. The step cycle calls for using the same weight for perhaps 2 or 3 workouts, not 10!

I recommend you abort what you are doing, and start a new cycle. Keep it simple, and make it a 10 work out cycle. Work out every day, 5 days a week and then take days off. Use linear progression, i.e., add weight to the bar every workout. Now, set a goal and work backwards. I suggest you start very conservative and set your goal as 110kg, meaning that is the weight you will attempt as your work set at the end of your cycle, on your tenth work out. So your starting weight on day 1 should be 87.5. Every work out you will be adding 2.5 kg. If the weight feels too light just do 2 work sets as opposed to 1 work set and a back off set at 90% of work set. On day 10, granted you finish the program successfully, which I am certain you will - congratulate yourself, take 2 days off and start your new cycle 5 kg heavier than the last cycle... repeat the process and keep going. After 3-4 cycles you can decide if you want to do the bear....

Thanks for this mate. So just so I am clear, I will start at 87.5, and add weight in 2.5kg increments until I reach 110kgs. Got it. Then after that I will reset with a new starting weigh of say 5 kilos higher than the previous. Thanks again. I will have to give that book another read as well.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

QUOTE="Mosca, post: 296154, member: 15293"]I worked my way up to 105kg for 5 reps and then the subsequent 90% of that weight for the next set, but after doing that once I felt my strength actually worsened and I had to lower the working weight back down to 90kgs...
[/QUOTE]

Top End Heavy Set Intense Set

Going up to a Top End Heavy Intense Set depletes everyone's strength and energy level.

That means any set that follows a Top End set is naturally will be lower.

Optimal Training Effect

In most cases, your Top End Heavy Intense Set elicits the greatest training response for gaining strength and/or size.

Maximizing Your Top End Load

One of the fundamental keys to ensuring your are maximizing the load/weight used with your top set is with...

Minimal Warm Ups Sets

The objective of Warm Up is to perform the minimal amount of work required to prepare you for your top set.

In other words, save your energy and strength for your top set.

One of the main issues with many individual is they turn their Warm Ups into a full blow workout. That means by the time they hit their top set they are out of gas; less strength, power, energy, etc.

Back Off Sets

The weight used in any back off set that follows you Top Set is directly related the amount of intensity of your Top Set.

The greater the intensity, harder it was to complete, the lower your back off set in an exercise will be.

2. In what increments should I increase the weight? 2.5kgs or 5kgs?

Progressive Overloading

A training program should progressively increase the loading of the exercise each week or training session.

The increment of weight is determined by heavy./intense it was in the previous training session.

As per marcelotine...

...start with a low enough weight and add weight to the bar every workout so that by the end of the cycle (a cycle can be 8 to 15 workouts long) you can set some personal records.

Periodization Training

This is the foundation of strength training.

One of my pet peeves is the dumbbed down version of Periodization Training into "Deload" and "Reload" and the misinformation on it that in the long run gaining less strength than you could have and would have made.

As marcelotine stated, one of the covenants is to start any new training program with light load and progressively increase the load each training session.

In the final week of a progressive training program, the exercise should be pushed to the limit or close to it.

Doing so, produces...

Overreaching

This is a mild form of Overtraining where the body recovers and become stronger; providing you back off and allow it to recover.

As per marcelotine...

...abort what you are doing, and start a new cycle.

Active Recovery

Backing off and starting a new cycle allows you to recover, become stronger.

The use of lighter load in the exercise increases blood flow to the muscles, enhancing faster recovery than if you simply took a week off from training; Passive Recovery.

 

[marcelotine]

@Mosca how is your new cycle coming along? I would love to hear an update.

 

[Mosca]

@Mosca how is your new cycle coming along? I would love to hear an update.

Thank you for following up! I’m going to be doing 97.5 on dead’s today and 60kgs on bench (I thought I’d do the same system for bench, started at 50kgs and worked my way up). 95kgs felt somewhat challenging on deadlifts. I’ll see how it feels today!

 

[Steve Freides]

@Mosca, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

-S-