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Other/Mixed ACFT MDL

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
@Jacobcutt
Can you give us a breakdown of your scores in each event?
Can you give us a little background and training history?

If you feel more comfortable being very specific in a PM vs a forum post, shoot me a message; I'd be happy to help.
 

Ryan Toshner

SFG TL, SFB, SFL, FMS
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
@Jacobcutt , as long as you have good technique, regular practice should get you there reasonably quickly.

I'm assuming that 260 is your 3 RM for the test. If that's correct, my suggestion for a simple program would be:

M: DL 5x5 @ 195 (about 70% of theoretical 1 RM)
W: 2H Swings 10 x 10 (use a weight that is heavy but which you can swing powerfully; rest as long as necessary so that all sets are as equally powerful as the first)
F: DL 5x3 @ 225 (about 80% of theoretical 1 RM)

- Each week, add 10 lbs to both M & F.
- When you feel that you won't be able to add 10 lbs and complete the next session/week, start over using the weights above.
- Lots of conditioning work (i.e. running) will likely slow down the progress. So lay off that a bit for now, if possible.
- Other strength work can be done after completing the reps above.
 

Jacobcutt

Level 4 Valued Member
@Jacobcutt , as long as you have good technique, regular practice should get you there reasonably quickly.

I'm assuming that 260 is your 3 RM for the test. If that's correct, my suggestion for a simple program would be:

M: DL 5x5 @ 195 (about 70% of theoretical 1 RM)
W: 2H Swings 10 x 10 (use a weight that is heavy but which you can swing powerfully; rest as long as necessary so that all sets are as equally powerful as the first)
F: DL 5x3 @ 225 (about 80% of theoretical 1 RM)

- Each week, add 10 lbs to both M & F.
- When you feel that you won't be able to add 10 lbs and complete the next session/week, start over using the weights above.
- Lots of conditioning work (i.e. running) will likely slow down the progress. So lay off that a bit for now, if possible.
- Other strength work can be done after completing the reps above.
That seems like a pretty legit plan. I'll work with it.
 

Jacobcutt

Level 4 Valued Member
@Jacobcutt
Can you give us a breakdown of your scores in each event?
Can you give us a little background and training history?

If you feel more comfortable being very specific in a PM vs a forum post, shoot me a message; I'd be happy to help.
I can drop approximate scores:
MDL: 260. I can get this on just about any day.
SPT: 7.5 m. My weakest event. I score in the 60s (points out of 100). Really want to get this number up. I have been doing timeless simple at 32k for months now, so swings aren't improving the event. As Dan says, "throwers throw". When I get time, I probably just need to log hundreds of throws.
HRP: 45. Decent. I get 42-48 pushups here without training it.
SDC: 1:45. Good. I get in the 90 percentile.
2MR: I dont remember what time I got, but I maxed it.

SPT is the event that could use the most improvement for overall score. MDL is a personal desire to increase, as the strength gains will likely transfer over to any number of areas in life, and will likely add to my SPT.

I play rec sports (soccer, disc golf). I have been doing simple and sinister since I joined the army about 3 years ago. Timeless simple is my go-to. I have experience with easy strength as well. Ran that one for months. I'm 5'8", 145 lbs., if that weighs in.
 

Marty

Level 6 Valued Member
I can drop approximate scores:
MDL: 260. I can get this on just about any day.
SPT: 7.5 m. My weakest event. I score in the 60s (points out of 100). Really want to get this number up. I have been doing timeless simple at 32k for months now, so swings aren't improving the event. As Dan says, "throwers throw". When I get time, I probably just need to log hundreds of throws.
HRP: 45. Decent. I get 42-48 pushups here without training it.
SDC: 1:45. Good. I get in the 90 percentile.
2MR: I dont remember what time I got, but I maxed it.

SPT is the event that could use the most improvement for overall score. MDL is a personal desire to increase, as the strength gains will likely transfer over to any number of areas in life, and will likely add to my SPT.

I play rec sports (soccer, disc golf). I have been doing simple and sinister since I joined the army about 3 years ago. Timeless simple is my go-to. I have experience with easy strength as well. Ran that one for months. I'm 5'8", 145 lbs., if that weighs in.
I had lots of success gaining over a meter on my SPT by using the double half snatch. I worked on ETK+ ladders of 2,4,6,8 reps with 2x16kg and 2x20kg for about 6 weeks before one of my ACFT’s. I then performed a couple double half snatches with the 2 40lb bells on test day just after the MDL. My first throw went 11.2 meters (up from 9.5 or something on previous test). You may need to lower the weight of the double snatches to get a feel, but I found tons of value from doing them. I know Dan John advises against doing them, but the load wasn’t too high so I felt perfectly safe. The lower body power and arc taming carried over perfectly to the SPT for me.

Also, a fellow soldier gave me the tip to roll the ball off my fingers on the throw similar to a fast ball in baseball…that seemed to help the velocity as well.
 
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John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I can drop approximate scores:
MDL: 260. I can get this on just about any day.
SPT: 7.5 m. My weakest event. I score in the 60s (points out of 100). Really want to get this number up. I have been doing timeless simple at 32k for months now, so swings aren't improving the event. As Dan says, "throwers throw". When I get time, I probably just need to log hundreds of throws.
HRP: 45. Decent. I get 42-48 pushups here without training it.
SDC: 1:45. Good. I get in the 90 percentile.
2MR: I dont remember what time I got, but I maxed it.

SPT is the event that could use the most improvement for overall score. MDL is a personal desire to increase, as the strength gains will likely transfer over to any number of areas in life, and will likely add to my SPT.

I play rec sports (soccer, disc golf). I have been doing simple and sinister since I joined the army about 3 years ago. Timeless simple is my go-to. I have experience with easy strength as well. Ran that one for months. I'm 5'8", 145 lbs., if that weighs in.
I'm assuming since you didn't list plank it isn't an issue. With HRP, SDC, and 2MR not being an issue I won't address those.

How often do you train the deadlift (or trap bar deadlift)?
How often do you train the SPT?

Depending on how much deadlift training you are currently doing would change what I would suggest. Ryan's plan above is great - I'd just add the throws before hand - e.g. 10-20 throws with an 8-12lb medicine ball. These could all be SPT, or you could play around with different variations. Track the distance for each throw. If you see two throws in a row decrease distance, stop throwing and move on.

As much as it is fun to play with how general fitness improvements carry over to performance, if you have something you want to develop specifically - train it. That's my opinion, and you know what opinions are like. Especially with a for-record test, going in KNOWING what you can do is a lot better than guessing or hoping.

I would also like to see you start using a bigger bell for S&S. If timeless is your go-to, it is time to start incorporating a 36kg or even a 40kg bell. 32kg (and the other training you have done) has got you this far, and continuing to do the same thing may not continue to result in any further improvements. If a bigger bell is not a possibility, learning how to snatch would be my next suggestion, or start using a double swing if you have access to pairs - e.g. 2x16kg bells, build up to 2x24kg bells. (Ryan did a great job outlining a plan for me to do the snatch test focusing on double swings. I hate double swings, but they work great, especially if you don't have access to larger bells.)

Although @Marty has had good success with double half snatch, if you are not already proficient at it I would not recommend using it for training. If you want to go down that route, using it at the beginning as a skill movement where you are focusing on learning it while you are doing other training would work, but that would be a longer term plan - learn the double (half) snatch -> train up the double (half) snatch -> train with the double (half) snatch. (There is learning the movement, then there is getting strong enough with it for it to provide a positive stimulus, and then there is using it to get that stimulus.)

A lot of this depends on how you've been training, how long you have before your next for record test, what you have access to, and how you want to train.

If you ever have a question or need help, feel free to send me a PM. I'm not always on the forum but I get emails when I'm PM'd and will pop back on.
 

Jacobcutt

Level 4 Valued Member
Thank you for your replies.

That is already a lot for my Simple (& Sinister) mind. I had been toying with the idea of getting a 40k. I did not want to drop the money, but I found a decent offer and ordered the next size up.

I will build towards timeless with 40k, first and foremost. Secondarily, I will begin to practice throws followed by MDL as prescribed above.

Day 1:
Medicine Ball Throw: 8-12 lbs. Warm up with two Hard Throws (Like the test). Follow up with 10-20 throws at 60-90 percent power. Try and find efficient motion. (Get it farther or the same with less). Throw a few from the side, a few over head (throwers throw).
Hex Bar Deadlift: 5 sets x 5 reps at 70% max.

Day 2:
Same idea with the medicine ball throw as day one.
Hex Bar Deadlift: 5 sets x 3 reps at 80% max.

These workouts will be done in the morning during PT hours when I get the chance. Honestly, cohesiveness with my platoon is more important than my individual specific improvement in these events, so I prioritize group PT. That said, when we get gym days, I'll do this instead of the bodybuilding work that is currently programmed.

Simple and Sinister will be done in the evenings 3 days a week.
 

John K

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I guess to add a couple key points relative to what we're talking about, Joe recommends:

1. Start 6-8lbs. Worst case you throw far. Err on the light side.
2. Do 18-24 total throws.
3. Each rep should be as maximally explosive as possible.
4. Set a cone out at "100% distance" - your max distance you've thrown. Every throw should be within at least 90%. If it isn't, end the set and rest.
5. His favorite throws - backwards overhead throw (most used), chest pass, vertical scoop toss for height, single arm shot put throw, rotational scoop toss.
6. Have intent. Rest. Measure your progress. Track.
 
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