Kettlebell Active duty Marine has questions re: Simple & Sinister

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Miguel

Level 5 Valued Member
@WxHerk , @Frank_IT , @JonS ,
Gentlemen, I am humbled by your words. Just trying to pay it forward and be as helpful, positive, and insightful (minus the years of studies, experience, trial and error, and wisdom) as Mr Ciampa has been with me.

I truly believe Mr. Ciampa has come across a training method (and lifestyle choice) that is perfect for Mil/LE/FR.
 

Daniel Talbot

Level 4 Valued Member
Not sure on the USMC requirement or expectations, being from across the pond (10year service in the UK). S&S is exceptional maintinance work for downtime. As with training for combat skills and drills must form the backbone, TABing, fire manoeuvre drills, wall climbs, then adding S&S with focus on the 100reps continuous challenges. kettle bells were never my sole were alway a supporting role in my training.
My old training routine:
5 days/week am 4.5mile steady state finish with 5mile interval sprint
3 day/week pm S&C (2 of which involved KB)
2 day/week afternoon Unit group/team PT
3 Day/week skills and drills practice.
this was quiet a punishing regiment.

I would not say do not risk ridicule at using a 16kg train at your level with pride and show all that all can progress! (in my humble opinion that is the role of an officer). How can you lead people who have never seen you able to overcome any difficulty.

Hope that this helps.
 

Cincinnatus25

Level 1 Valued Member
Good day all. I'm an Active duty Captain in the Marine Corps, forward deployed to a lovely FOB overseas. I have access to 16, 24, and 32K bells, and have been following the S&S program daily for the past couple of weeks, beginning with the 24K for everything, and have loved my results (I've also got several of the soldiers out here doing the workout with me, and they love it as well). I've read most of Pavel's books, and have always had great success with his strength programs, but for some reason I always start losing steam when I try to incorporate serious running into my routines. My professional goals are to max out the CFT in a few months (Oct), and have a good base to get a sub 20:00 3 mile for the PFT next spring (I can easily get 26-30 clean pull-ups on any given day, and it takes about 3 weeks of daily crunch practice to max those out. My most recent CFT was easily maxed, but my 3mile was at 20:38 before I deployed). My personal goals are to press the Beast (Currently pressing the 36K for singles each arm), and master the one arm pull-up for multiple reps (currently at a single for each arm). I have an old injury from my gymnastics career that causes my upper back and neck to get painfully tight (too many iron crosses with extremely poor posture for years), but it is very manageable with the proper correctives. I only have time for a single daily training session in the evening. I am wary of simply adding in more exercise, and would greatly appreciate any advice on designing a well balanced training program. I'm interested in following Dan John's advice of mastering the S&S Simple standard, then working through the ROP. My main question is: how to do that while simultaneously maintaining or improving my running speed and endurance.

I've had good results over the past few years just pushing myself, doing the ETK routines alternated with NW and BB, and adding running haphazardly, but I'm not a young invincible Lieutenant anymore, and I need to work smarter, as I consistently get injured every few months due to putting too much on my plate. I intend to get out to the Durham SFG when I return to Camp Lejeune in a few months, but any feedback while I'm out is great. I only train with kettlebells and bodyweight. Some more info: I can do one arm pushups, human flags, pistols, and levers fairly easily at a bodyweight of 170 lbs, and I do not want or need to lose any weight.

Semper Fi
 

Sauli

Level 8 Valued Member
Take a jog on your variety days.. if you go long or fast then you should also maybe reduce volume of the swings if you do rop. If you do s&s you can go for run after your get ups. You can skip your swings on your run days...
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
@Cincinnatus25
Welcome. And thanks for your service.
You sound pretty fit as it stands.

I would do S&S religiously by the book.
Weighted 3RM fighter pull-ups (to move towards the one arm pull-up)
And run. Mostly long MAF efforts.
I'm pushing 60 and I was doing this pretty effectively until I messed up my shoulder climbing.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
for some reason I always start losing steam when I try to incorporate serious running into my routines
My guess is that you're running too much at a too-fast pace. Read up on MAF heart-rate training, and try to keep most of your running in that range, plus a little speedwork. Just a guess, of course, but if you've got a heart rate monitor, try it and report back on what it says during a typical run of yours, please.

-S-
 

Timothy Friel

Level 5 Valued Member
@WxHerk , @Frank_IT , @JonS ,
Gentlemen, I am humbled by your words. Just trying to pay it forward and be as helpful, positive, and insightful (minus the years of studies, experience, trial and error, and wisdom) as Mr Ciampa has been with me.

I truly believe Mr. Ciampa has come across a training method (and lifestyle choice) that is perfect for Mil/LE/FR.
I have to second that. Mr. Ciampa is definitely the one to turn to for insight on this. I'm a former active duty marine who still works and plays like I never left. After trying every program out there my training now revolves around lsd runs/Rucks and heavy snatches and I love it. Only time I plan to touch on anything else is during tsc prep.
 

Matts

Level 3 Valued Member
to start running, start with a distance and pace that's totally easy for you, and almost doesn't seem like a workout. Then increase distance around 10% a week, keeping pace easy--being able to talk while you run is goal, and you don't need a HRM for that. Normal life will give you deloads, just skip a few days or a week every now and then. If you do this consistently, you'll be surprised how it will add up over several months and how much speed you'll have for the PFT and the few times you really need it. Stay safe!
 

Cincinnatus25

Level 1 Valued Member
Thanks to everyone for the advice! Worked in a 1 mile run at a 7:30 pace at the end of my S&S routine. Focused on staying loose, good form, and able to talk comfortably. Feel excellent today. Will work into it slowly. Agree with Steve Friedes on pushing too hard too fast. It's in my nature to want to continually push it to the limit whenever I can. I will look into getting a HR monitor. I know I tend to ignore the talk test in order to meet a certain time threshold, especially when running. I think the other thing that has held me back has been my unwillingness to actually write down any of my workouts over the years (Yes, I know, lack of discipline). S&S has made that alot easier, and I'm finally building the habit. Side note: I've never been able to train every day, and feel as good as I do now on any other routine. I was very skeptical of S&S (knew about it for years, but figured that just couldn't work), and only started doing it here, because there really wasn't much of another option. Every few days before or after S&S, I'll test some aspect of fitness (max pullups, one arm pullups, heavy press, etc), just to make sure I haven't lost it for 1 or 2 sets total. Everything is getting better. Even my running form drastically improves after swings and Get-ups. I believe there was an article that talked about the positive effect Get-ups have on running form here. Well I can attest to it. The soldiers I'm working with are drastically improving too. All of them started struggling with the 16k a couple of weeks ago, and just last night, they worked in a couple of very clean, technical TGU's with the 24, and wanted to do more. I won't say it's magic, but I've definitely drunk the koolaid. Keep HR down, and just build up slowly.
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Get a copy of "Running Formula" by professor Jack Daniels. If memory serves, 7:30/mile is OK for 1 mile at your pace, but longer, slower is better. I think you should be looking at 30-60 minute runs at around 8:00-8:15/mile. The book is great - is has a chart in which you look up a recent performance and it will give you paces for different kinds of run. Don't trust my memory, get the book. I only can quote some numbers because I was roughly your speed of runner. I did 20 minutes and change for 5k a number of times with a best of 20:10.

-S-
 

Cincinnatus25

Level 1 Valued Member
A lot of good info, thanks! I was able to obtain a basic HR monitor, and will begin to use it for swings and running today.
 

Cincinnatus25

Level 1 Valued Member
Steve Friedes, I'll see if I can get that book. I think I need to mentally overcome the idea I have that I'll start losing strength/muscle if I start running LSD. Also I don't think I have time to knock out daily S&S AND work in a long run. Perhaps once or twice a week. Right now I'm doing Daily S&S followed by Sprints on Tuesdays (variable distances, 100-800m), and a LSD on Fridays (About 30-40 min usually). When I can and feel good, I'll add in an easy mile or so run here and there. mprevost, thanks for the chart and article I appreciate it. Being deployed, my schedule doesn't always fit in with my training program, so the first thing I drop is the running in a crunch, but always find a way to knock out S&S. I read Al Ciampa's HR article for S&S and will give it a shot tonight.
 

offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
I think I need to mentally overcome the idea I have that I'll start losing strength/muscle if I start running LSD.
Won't happen, or won't be significant enough if you do it right. I encourage you to look at Andrew Reads book. (And anything that Al says on the subject)
 

Cincinnatus25

Level 1 Valued Member
So I used the heart rate monitor for the first time yesterday. I used Al Ciampa's formula, and got 148 as my target HR. Kept my heart rate below 143 during all rest intervals, and waited until my heart rate dropped below 125 before I started the next set of swings. Ended up taking about 13 minutes, vice the normal 8 or 9 I've been doing using my own perception of the talk test. Definitely felt like I could have pushed harder, but I guess that is the point.
 
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