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Kettlebell Adding exercises to Simple

Triggers18

First Post
I know Pavel warms about adding additional exercises to the Swings/TGUs/Squats, but as the summer is near, I keep wanting to add Mil Press/Bent Over Rows/Bench or Floor Presses.

Current Plan:
Timeless Simple 6 days (2 hard, 1 light), long cardio on 7th day. Using books progression…currently at 24,28,28,24,24 Kg.

I add the “big 3” exercises every other day doing 5 sets of 5.

I’m still motived to do Simple 6 days a week and adding these other exercises makes me not want to drop Simple to add both strength and size (vanity, I know).

Open to people’s thoughts…pitfalls to look out for, verification I’m not overdoing it etc.

Thanks
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
I’m still motived to do Simple 6 days a week and adding these other exercises makes me not want to drop Simple to add both strength and size (vanity, I know).
My thought would be go 3 & 3 for 3 weeks and then assess how you feel and if you're making progress and/or seeing results from your other exercises. So, 3 days S&S training as you are doing, and 3 days Mil Press/Bent Over Rows/Bench or Floor Presses (assuming with reasonable volume/programming) instead of S&S. Continuing your long cardio on 7th day. Continuing "big 3" as you are (I assume these are not taxing). Take a day of rest if you feel you need it.
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
What do you mean by the big three? The exercises you listed (Rows, overhead press and bench)?

If so, you'd be neglecting the lower body terribly.

I think this recent article gives a much better way of doing exactly what you're suggesting: How Built Strong Helped Me Achieve Sinister | StrongFirst

The examples here are heavy goblets, dips, rows, but you could easily swap out for similar compound exercises. E.g. floor press for dips, etc.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
What do you mean by the big three?
I think it's Stuart McGill's "big 3", bird dog, side plank, curl-up. But maybe not.

Actually I'm not sure. And also I can't tell if he's saying he does that now, or proposing to do it with the changed program.

Agree there is some potential there to be neglecting the lower body.
 

Bunn

Level 6 Valued Member
@Triggers18 You could add to S&S, but I would recommend to pick another program more suited to your needs/desires. I would look at the following:



I have used both and really like them.
 

sizzlefuzz

Level 6 Valued Member
Honestly, I prefer a mix of front squats, windmills, and mil press over the TGU in general. Once you get to the world of heavy get ups (36kg+), I think they are too risky and the progression/overload possibilities are superior with different exercises.
 

jozko

Level 2 Valued Member
I know Pavel warms about adding additional exercises to the Swings/TGUs/Squats, but as the summer is near, I keep wanting to add Mil Press/Bent Over Rows/Bench or Floor Presses.
Summer is near, so you want to be jacked and cut? If yes, I am afraid S&S is not what you seek, however great protocol it is.
Perhaps you'd like to do more presses, pull-up and rowing in general, dips and squats?
Do not insist on any particular tool, first consider your goal.
Edit: @Bunn 's answer is so good! I only would add Kettlebell Red zone: Kettlebell - The Red Zone (Pavel, T. Program)
 

Mark Limbaga

Level 8 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Something to take note of:

Timeless simple means doing all sets of swings and getups with a 32kg for males 24kg for swing and 16kg for getups if you're a female..

What is your goal at the moment?!
 

3letterslong

Level 5 Valued Member
I know Pavel warms about adding additional exercises to the Swings/TGUs/Squats, but as the summer is near, I keep wanting to add Mil Press/Bent Over Rows/Bench or Floor Presses.

Current Plan:
Timeless Simple 6 days (2 hard, 1 light), long cardio on 7th day. Using books progression…currently at 24,28,28,24,24 Kg.

I add the “big 3” exercises every other day doing 5 sets of 5.

I’m still motived to do Simple 6 days a week and adding these other exercises makes me not want to drop Simple to add both strength and size (vanity, I know).

Open to people’s thoughts…pitfalls to look out for, verification I’m not overdoing it etc.

Thanks

I'm not an expert, but I would add Convict Conditioning / Hybrid Calisthenics (as laid out) to Simple & Sinister. I say this because it will add size and strength to your body while costing you very little in terms of time and recovery and is unlikely to interfere with S&S (or vice versa).
 

Ege

Level 2 Valued Member
Hi;

I need some correction if I am mistaken. This is more a question than an input.

I have read in this forum that, Pavel himself commented and gave a green light for GTG pull ups for a person doing S&S.

Well before anybody frying me to put words in to Pavel’s mouth, he gave this advice for a military personell, who was supposed to work on Pull Ups plus probably already young, very fit and committed etc. so his advice might be very specific but not applicable to general. I am on purpose not copy pasting Pavel’s sentence because it would be disrespectful and unfair to get anybody’s advice for a single person and generalize. Because I am sure, he met many people asking advice and his one advice to one person might not fit to an other. (I am sure there might be some people that he did not recomend S&S, well this does not mean he does not recommend s&s to anyone :))Altough the books are for general population.

So my question is. Does Pavel give green light for NW or GTG without altering the S&S for general population?

The person might be very fit or on the contrary, he/she might not have any other sports skill training?

Any information about Pavel’s opinions on this will be more than valuable.

I thought answer of my question can shed light to this question. If there is green light for NW then you have your big exercises covered as you name them.

Best, Ege
 
Last edited:

Mark Limbaga

Level 8 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
Hi;

I need some correction if I am mistaken. This is more a question than an input.

I have read in this forum that, Pavel himself commented and gave a green light for GTG pull ups for a person doing S&S.

Well before anybody frying me to put words in to Pavel’s mouth, he gave this advice for a military personell, who was supposed to work on Pull Ups plus probably already young, very fit and committed etc. so his advice might be very specific but not applicable to general. I am on purpose not copy pasting Pavel’s sentence because it would be disrespectful and unfair to get anybody’s advice for a single person and generalize. Because I am sure, he met many people asking advice and his one advice to one person might not fit to an other. (I am sure there might be some people that he did not recomend S&S, well this does not mean he does not recommend s&s to anyone :))Altough the books are for general population.

So my question is. Does Pavel give green light for NW or GTG without altering the S&S for general population?

The person might be very fit or on the contrary, he/she might not have any other sports skill training?

Any information about Pavel’s opinions on this will be more than valuable.

I thought answer of my question can shed light to this question. If there is green light for NW then you have your big exercises covered as you name them.

Best, Ege
Adding on GTG to S and S is acceptable as a way to learn a new skill or scratch the itch
 

Triggers18

First Post
I know Pavel warms about adding additional exercises to the Swings/TGUs/Squats, but as the summer is near, I keep wanting to add Mil Press/Bent Over Rows/Bench or Floor Presses.

Current Plan:
Timeless Simple 6 days (2 hard, 1 light), long cardio on 7th day. Using books progression…currently at 24,28,28,24,24 Kg.

I add the “big 3” exercises every other day doing 5 sets of 5.

I’m still motived to do Simple 6 days a week and adding these other exercises makes me not want to drop Simple to add both strength and size (vanity, I know).

Open to people’s thoughts…pitfalls to look out for, verification I’m not overdoing it etc.

Thanks
Great feedback and plenty of ideas/suggestions for me to consider.

To clarify where I was vague:
1. I have been doing S&S (towards timeless Simple for men) plus squats.
2. Recently I added what I nicknamed my Big 3, Mil Press/Rows/Bench Press every other day.
4. I try to follow Pavel’s every third day is a light Simple workout. Every 7th day is no weights, long enduring cardio (bike/walk).

48 year old male, so my mindset (if I’m being honest) is 70 percent sustain strength and 30 percent vanity (look good in a bathing suit next month).

Again, thanks for the feedback…will look into the different suggestions, especially body weight and/or lower body.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
Great feedback and plenty of ideas/suggestions for me to consider.

To clarify where I was vague:
1. I have been doing S&S (towards timeless Simple for men) plus squats.
2. Recently I added what I nicknamed my Big 3, Mil Press/Rows/Bench Press every other day.
4. I try to follow Pavel’s every third day is a light Simple workout. Every 7th day is no weights, long enduring cardio (bike/walk).

48 year old male, so my mindset (if I’m being honest) is 70 percent sustain strength and 30 percent vanity (look good in a bathing suit next month).

Again, thanks for the feedback…will look into the different suggestions, especially body weight and/or lower body.

Makes sense... thanks for the clarification.

I would think of it in terms of "What is driving adaptation?" for you, specifically.

I think we could all pick a light kettlebell weight that we could do an S&S session with that would incur no recovery debt whatsoever -- like a daily walk. For me it would be 12 kg, where a normal/challenging session would be with 24 kg. IMO, it never hurts to do this session along with anything else, if that's just what you want to do. Sessions like that are not driving any new adaptation. It may help preserve movement quality and it may benefit you in terms of being generally active, but it's not making you stronger, more powerful, etc.

The reason I bring that up is that if you really just want to continue doing S&S because you like it, and you want to do these other things also, then scale back the S&S to this "no recovery debt" weight on all days except maybe 2 or 3 per week. For those 2 or 3 per week, use your normal somewhat challenging weight. You will progress with S&S, but perhaps more slowly than you would if you dedicated to it.

Then on your other days, do your somewhat challenging "big 3" of Mil Press/Rows/Bench Press, with some intelligent programming that provides an intensity and volume that drives some new adaptation. You should progress with that.

It's possible that the new adaptation you gain from the "big 3" work will help you with S&S.... perhaps even more so than working S&S directly. That would be an individual thing as to what your limiters are, and how much you progress with the other training. In this case it's not likely to be seen now, but perhaps a few months down the road when you can begin to incorporate and capitalize on the gains from the "big 3" work into S&S and other things.
 

silveraw

Level 7 Valued Member
In a recent interview Zar Horton made it seem that for a bit there he used S&S as a warmup for his S&S work with another group and then followed it up with a workout with another group followed by another S&S session with another group. This was when he was running the fire academy training.

Which is probably why he looks like he does.
 

Dayz

Level 6 Valued Member
Great feedback and plenty of ideas/suggestions for me to consider.

To clarify where I was vague:
1. I have been doing S&S (towards timeless Simple for men) plus squats.
2. Recently I added what I nicknamed my Big 3, Mil Press/Rows/Bench Press every other day.
4. I try to follow Pavel’s every third day is a light Simple workout. Every 7th day is no weights, long enduring cardio (bike/walk).

48 year old male, so my mindset (if I’m being honest) is 70 percent sustain strength and 30 percent vanity (look good in a bathing suit next month).

Again, thanks for the feedback…will look into the different suggestions, especially body weight and/or lower body.
I think the problem with those big three is they're really not balanced. Not balanced for your upper body, nor for the body as a whole.
 
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