Aerobic?

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I thought the whole thing about kettlebells was to get away from the dishonor of aerobics? LOL
as long I don't wear pink leg warmers I consider aerobic work now as hard style.

Earnestly, when I got more serious with this iron stuff 8-9 years ago I always enjoyed endurance training I liked to run quite frequently through a week, from spring to autumn I enjoyed longer rides on my racing bike and even was on the roller in winter. Then I abandoned it almost completely.

In some schools of the kettlebell community it was highlighted as kind of (maybe even better) substitute for aerobic work. I kettlebell sports people considered and still consider aerobic work as an addition to their performance and most of them may not neglect this "boring" stuff.

In my opinion, the kettlebell delivers endurance no question accompanied by strength and power.

Would I not volunteered in @aciampa's "lazy endurance" protocols back then, I maybe still do my cardio via swings and snatches. Al suggested later after half of a year into the Alactic stuff to introduce some Aerobic endurance work. One part of me thought….so, what???
on the other hand I measured great improvements on the SSST and ten minute running tests by only swinging, nor snatching or running.
I trusted Al, listened to his instruction on the aerobic work. On the other hand endurance work was not completely foreign to me. I like to say, that I learned endurance work from a man who benched a ship. I relatively quickly got to my alright, repeatable intensities for my chosen activities (rowing and running) and it is way below my MAF. On a daily basis I consider MAF almost hardcore…

After half a year, adding aerobic work consistently I "lost" 10kg of bodyweight. I gained relative strength, better body composition, and witnessed the effects on the volumes of A+A work in terms of recovery between repeats and session to session. Having a good aerobic base is for real. At mySFG1 recert this June in hot Italy, I breezed through the snatch test, no setting down of the bell, all breathing through the nose at the end of day three. Through the last grad work out I got all my reps in too.

By now I know, that I will keep on to endurance training, the most bunch in low heart rates. I am 40+ and there is not very much I should "try out" anymore regarding training. A+A is just to good to abandon, A+A = 1+1=3. It is literally relaxing not only needing to iron things out.
 
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Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
I thought the whole thing about kettlebells was to get away from the dishonor of aerobics?
I always thought this was a funny, teasing line addressed mostly at people who exercise to lose weight. In that context, kettlebells might very well be a replacement to the dishonor of aerobics. But for performance, all serious athletes have always done cardio.

Even at those days, I would guess that if Pavel had to train a serious boxer, soccer player, rugby player or the such, he would send him/her jogging for some decent volume. At least a couple of times a year during base building. Maybe those who were around at that time can confirm this.
 

banzaiengr

Level 7 Valued Member
O.K. now, @Steve Freides told me we didn't need a sarcasm font if you put LOL after your comment.

I've always included some running in my training. Even when I was a shade tree power lifter and my teammates told me it would hurt my lifts I did it. For me it was always about the best "all around" condition, not a 500 lb. squat. Well that's not a fair statement because even if I hadn't ran I wouldn't have squatted 500.

I recall reading this for the first time and thinking, "what does this Russian know"?

I was just trolling the forum yesterday and notice all of these posts regarding aerobics/running/rower and found it funny.

I blame all of this on that @aciampa guy! When I first started training with him he ask me why I ran. Two years later he's wanting me to run 3 hr. per week. It was a total mind blow.
 

the hansenator

Level 6 Valued Member
The dishonor or aerobics line was from a number of years ago and seemed to reference the particular mindset of the time. My guess is that information, trends, marketing slogans, people involved, and stuff have changed over the years.
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
I'm sure part of it was that "aerobics" as popularly understood was/is typically done at too high of an intensity. So locomotion (running, cycling, etc.) done at well over MAF, or things like spinning class, step-aerobics, etc. with the main aim of driving up the heart rate and keeping it high...with form and function (e.g. weak reps) sacrificed for the sake of keeping up the pace. I think it was in S&S that Pavel said something like "100 punches are meaningless if punches 3-100 couldn't knock over your little sister", meaning strength/power drops way off. Or that Bruce Lee quote: "I don't fear the man who has done 10,000 punches...I fear the man who has done 1 punch 10,000 times".

So I think it's more a dig at the "cardio bunny" idea than how serious endurance athletes train (or other athletes use smart aerobic training as part of their overall training).
 

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
But MAF aerobic training is the real deal. It seems to help everything, and cuts through life-stress like a hot knife through butter.
yes, it's that good. It helps everything. The aerobic system is the recovery system. And how one approaches aerobic work matters a lot I think. I do it because I know its good, because I experienced it and still do. The running and rowing are not a means to the end for me that I am chasing something. I deeply enjoy this synchronization of breath and movement. What I am interested in are the symbiotic effects of iron and locomotion work for which I am my own genuine guinea pig.
 

banzaiengr

Level 7 Valued Member
Yep, the lower intensity aerobics (for me running and now just the airdyne) is a completely different animal than the folks you see on the gerbil wheel tearing it up everyday at the gym. Ever notice those folks never seem to change in appearance?

I could never figure out why when I was lifting hard and began to increase my running I always seemed to end up injured. Those runs were most always at a hard pace and included lots of hills.

Training with Al I did A+A swings three days per week and ran only two days per week. One progressively longer run starting out at 40 min. and adding 5 min. each week and one 30 min. run. Both runs at MAF. My goal was to run a half marathon. Did it in 2 hr 17 min. running all but the last two miles at MAF.

Had I done this on my own I can only imagine the injuries I would have encounter along the way.
 

Ryan T

Level 5 Valued Member
Anyone row? Seems like that's great for just for slow steady state, "sprinting", intervals. I did it for about 6 weeks twice per week. I was doing intervals and it was brutal. A nice slow, steady pace might be really nice.
 

Harald Motz

Level 6 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Anyone row? Seems like that's great for just for slow steady state, "sprinting", intervals.
I do a bunch of steady state on it. Interval just a few so far. For both cases the rower is a great device. You can dose the effort on point with it.
 

Oscar

Level 6 Valued Member
What is your opinion on row vs running or rucking for steady cardio? at Tactical Barbell they say that running is the best form of cardio along with rucking, because these are more natural to us than other exercises. This was discussed here at the forum short ago.
 

Stefan Olsson

Level 6 Valued Member
Running, rowing, kettlebells and bodyweight excercises is a must! :cool:

Right now I do four sessions a week; two strength days with Armour Building Complex EMEOM 20min/10sets top that off with 2x5 weighted pull-ups and close the show with 20min on the rower. The other two days are pure OCR running ~10km.

It took some time but at this time of life this is my ultimate park bench program! When a race is closing I will up the running and lower the strength stuff!

The is no dishonor in flowing trough the forest with a work capacity of an android. Android work capacity anyone? :)


Btw, ABC>S&S (y)
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
Is rucking on a treadmill worse than not doing anything? I have a treadmill my wife uses, but I don't do "LSD" currently, just the occasional stroll. I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to "long walks on the beach" (as it were) during the day/evening, but could do it for 60-70 minutes in the early morning on the treadmill. Is rucking only meant to be done outdoors?
 

banzaiengr

Level 7 Valued Member
Is rucking on a treadmill worse than not doing anything? I have a treadmill my wife uses, but I don't do "LSD" currently, just the occasional stroll. I don't have a lot of time to dedicate to "long walks on the beach" (as it were) during the day/evening, but could do it for 60-70 minutes in the early morning on the treadmill. Is rucking only meant to be done outdoors?
Is it worse than not doing anything? Maybe, the problem with treadmills is it's not normal to walk or run on a moving surface. My understanding is that this creates tightness in the lower legs that ends up causing other problems.

I've used them sparingly living here in MN when I couldn't get outside for fear of having some idiot that doesn't know how to drive on snow hit me. But I have noticed the issue with the tightness.

Treadmills like the rower do have value for intervals and hills.

Since I can't run anymore, I picked up a used airdyne shortly after having my walking boot removed. I love it and think it has at least as much value as the rower. Plus you can pick one up used around 125 bucks, much cheaper than the C2 rower.

Back to rucking, Sean why can't you get a reflective vest and ruck in the morning. Just an idea.

@Oscar I would agree that running is better than sitting on a machine. JMHO
 

Steve W.

Level 7 Valued Member
For indoor easy aerobics, my favorite is the NordicTrack ski machine. Very natural gait pattern, low impact, and utilizes the upper and lower body. The machines are easy to fold up and move around and used ones are readily available inexpensively on Craigslist (at least in my area). Mine cost $39.

If you are looking for one, get the "Pro" model which has adjustable front elevation. I generally use it at a much higher front elevation than the non-adjustable ones have. There's a model called the Achiever which has adjustable front elevation and a fancy knob to adjust the leg tension. It's nominally an upgrade on the Pro, but the adjustment system is fiddly, prone to breakage and doesn't hold a constant tension as well as the simpler Pro model.

I like to use it watching sports on TV -- if there's no live game, NBATV has a lot of classic games.

I get a fair cumulative amount of walking in with my dog, and I am evolved enough to buy into the value of low intensity aerobic base training, but I am not an evolved enough to do it without a television in front of me.
 
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offwidth

Level 9 Valued Member
Is it worse than not doing anything? Maybe, the problem with treadmills is it's not normal to walk or run on a moving surface. My understanding is that this creates tightness in the lower legs that ends up causing other problems.

I've used them sparingly living here in MN when I couldn't get outside for fear of having some idiot that doesn't know how to drive on snow hit me. But I have noticed the issue with the tightness.

Treadmills like the rower do have value for intervals and hills.

Since I can't run anymore, I picked up a used airdyne shortly after having my walking boot removed. I love it and think it has at least as much value as the rower. Plus you can pick one up used around 125 bucks, much cheaper than the C2 rower.

Back to rucking, Sean why can't you get a reflective vest and ruck in the morning. Just an idea.

@Oscar I would agree that running is better than sitting on a machine. JMHO
I would rather stand in a cold shower with all my clothes on ripping up twenty dollar bills than run on a treadmill...

That being said Joan Benoit won the inaugural women's Olympic marathon, training mostly on a treadmill...

And yeah @Sean M if you have 70min to ruck in the morning why wouldn't you do it outside if you don't mind me asking? :)
 

Sean M

Level 6 Valued Member
I would rather stand in a cold shower with all my clothes on ripping up twenty dollar bills than run on a treadmill...

That being said Joan Benoit won the inaugural women's Olympic marathon, training mostly on a treadmill...

And yeah @Sean M if you have 70min to ruck in the morning why wouldn't you do it outside if you don't mind me asking? :)
It’s cold! ROFL I suppose you’re right. My neighborhood doesn’t have sidewalks, so it’s either the street or yards. But in the winter the streets get crowded with snow banks and parked cars (and dark and icy). Maybe I would do rucking in non-snowy seasons (the saying around here is our four seasons are: almost winter, winter, STILL winter...and road construction) and find a cheap erg for rowing in the winter.
 
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