Kettlebell Aesthetics

[North Coast Miller]

Hello,

@North Coast Miller
I think you underline something interesting: it also depends on your starting point.

Here is an impressive "transformation" and training, from Charlie Hunnam (King Arthur movie). Do not know if this is possible or not though...

Here, the approach is supposed to be different: massive number of repetition, and I guess a lot of food !

Kind regards,

Pet'

Absolutely, though you will have tough time putting on weight rapidly as in this case, it is possibly a lot more sustainable over time. Schoenfeld among others have demonstrated similar size increases across a wide range of %RM work. You won't have big top-end improvement but likely more speed and localized endurance.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Agreed. Mark Twight has been training a lot of "hero" actors for a while. I think his programs for them are usually a few months long and periodized for hypertrophy followed by fat loss. I suppose one could keep alternating those two types of programs with good success but I wouldn't want to rotate back and forth on those two alone for years on end. Real life heros have a long career of aesthetic performance compared to a few months for ones that only play a hero on TV.

Agree 100%.

Another factor to consider (though I have zero empirical proof of this) is that the longer you live at a given weight within reason, the easier it is to maintain that weight. After that, is no different than improving abs for aesthetics - 80% in the kitchen and avoid detraining for too long.

 

[pet']

Hello,

As we see in the movie and pictures, Hunnam (for instance) is not "huge" despite all the training he does. However, he reaches some kind of pretty achievable physique, very lean.

I wonder if low rep training would have done the same, meaning slightly more swollen, though

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[User 6372]

And let’s not kid ourselves, Hollywood is full of steroids. I totally respect Hardy for admitting he used them to prepare for Bane. Butler’s trainer basically outed him for 300. Bale’s like 50 kg swing (allegedly) from The Mechanic to Batman begins in 6 months. Nope. I don’t care personally . I just wish they would be honest.

 

[North Coast Miller]

Hello,

As we see in the movie and pictures, Hunnam (for instance) is not "huge" despite all the training he does. However, he reaches some kind of pretty achievable physique, very lean.

I wonder if low rep training would have done the same, meaning slightly more swollen, though

Kind regards,

Pet'

I doubt it, though you could probably do low rep to increase size and then switch to high rep. In his case starting out lean with an athletic history, high rep/moderate intensity and lots of food.

In his case I think he got it right, though I suspect there were some pretty swole fighters back in the day. They knew about training with rovks, logs etc, though probably didn't have the understanding we enjoy starting with DeLorme.

Also he looks to be fairly young still = more training options. The fact he was able to call his own strategy speaks to the director's confidence. His routine would work on me I'm sure, but I probably manage better with less volume/more intensity and supplement with lots of actual swordplay and whatever stunt gymnastics I'd have to perform. I might burn out on high volume everything.

Have to admit, spreading that high volume BW around all day would keep you mighty photogenic.

 

[North Coast Miller]

And let’s not kid ourselves, Hollywood is full of steroids. I totally respect Hardy for admitting he used them to prepare for Bane. Butler’s trainer basically outed him for 300. Bale’s like 50 kg swing (allegedly) from The Mechanic to Batman begins in 6 months. Nope. I don’t care personally . I just wish they would be honest.

I have no doubt there are plenty of PEDs going around, this is big $ at stake. Another thing to consider is that the camera is going to present all these folks in the best possible light, and then maybe a touch of digital cleanup and heavy dose of costume magic as well. Street images tend to look good, but nothing like the promo pics.

Even at his most ripped, Brolin looked (looks) good for his age but certainly not superhuman or needing juice to get the results. And in Deadpool 2 he barely even showed off any muscle when in costume.

You can also see the difference in just about all the Avengers, as the series goes on there are a lot less physique shots and a lot more costume work. You just buy into it because you've already seen all these folks totally strapped...like 10 years ago. Still in good shape, but maybe not like a comic book anymore.

 

[guardian7]

Another big factor in aesthetics that is often overlooked is the effect of your basal metabolic rate, calories burned by digestion, and passive calorie burn from simply activity vs intentional exercise. If you have a hard physical job or even if you are just walking around all day at you can burn a significant amount of calories if you keep your diet under control. People regularly overestimate the effects of deliberate exercise and overestimate the effects of being "passively active" for losing weight. Indeed, there is some evidence that doing a really hard workout will make you tired and then you will tend to decrease your movement for the rest of the day because you have done your "workout" thereby canceling out the overall calories burned from your short exercise session. I don't want to do anything after deadlifting. Of course, there are many other reasons to exercise than calorie burn. Here is a useful overview of the relative calories burned. The science is in: exercise won’t help you lose much weight

From runner's world:
For a 30-minute run, that works out to 396 calories burned running compared to 228 calories burned while walking for 30 minutes.

This is why people like myself who work on a computer all day often have health effects. We are at around a 400 calorie deficit (arbitrary number) each day compared to someone on their feet working all day.

The problem with relying on slow movement of course is that it is so time inefficient.

 

[Bret S.]

This is why people like myself who work on a computer all day often have health effects. We are at around a 400 calorie deficit (arbitrary number) each day compared to someone on their feet working all day.

I just finished a 3 week super mentally/physically demanding construction job during which I ate double my normal food ration, still I lost 5 to 7 lbs. It's unbelievable how many calories burn during these high intensity jobs.

 

[pet']

Hello,

I read in S. Carney's book that the brain burns about 20% of our calories, no matter of the intellectual effort.

Daily effort is important indeed. I can lose about 1.5 kg in just 1 or 2 day, even if I eat a lot, when I work in the garden (basically, chopping wood). I am a desk worker, but remain as active as I can (daily training, 1h30 walking a day, a lot of carries and weather exposure, etc...)Plus, I also notice that as soon as I change the routine, I am very hungry for a few days, while y body gets used to the new training.

One of my colleague is a former marathon runner. Nowadays, he stopped competing. However, he keep running 3 days a week, for about 60km a week, at 12km/h. He eat a lot, even more than me, but he is soooooo lean. In addition to his running, he only does 80 push ups a day, plus 10 minutes abs...

Otherwise, I do not know if clubbells or macebells, which involve the whole body (so do squat and deadlift, C&J, C&P...) could lead to the same results in terms of aesthetics

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Bret S.]

(daily training, 1h30 walking a day, a lot of carries and weather exposure, etc...)

That's alot of walking, I'm walking 2-3 times/wk and rowing. How fast do you walk? I try for sub 15min/mi pace.. Are you carrying during every walk and if so what is it and what is the weight?

I'm looking for a good rucksack now.. have an offer in on a 'Propper' military one

 

[North Coast Miller]

Otherwise, I do not know if clubbells or macebells, which involve the whole body (so do squat and deadlift, C&J, C&P...) could lead to the same results in terms of aesthetics

Kind regards,

Pet'

The basic weaving forward and reverse is what I used to do using a variety of weighted sticks, some light and I'd hit the sparring dummy, and sometimes with lengths of black pipe, going fairly slow and maintaining roughly 90° at the elbow. This combined with footwork - I'd have to do these in a crouch to really fire up the legs, but they also got plenty of locomotion work.

With this you can concentrate on the opening and closing mechanics of forehand/backhand and really feel it hit the pecs and upper back - shoulders and forearms get tattooed coming and going, obliques, serratus.

This combined with physical job, jump rope, some biking and jogging provided OK aesthetics though somewhat on the lean side - about 165-170lbs compared to my usual 185 or so.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Brett S
I forgot to mention I also do boxing, at least twice week.

Based on the distance provided by Google, and based on my typical day, I walk at about 4,5km/h. This covers all the walks I do (come and go to work, lunchtime (I enjoy walking at the moment to clear my mind), grocery, etc... ). Plus, I never use elevator. Then I climb a lot of stairs as well.

I do not carry during every walk. I carry when I go to the grocery. At this moment I buy for 2 people (Madame and myself). To be honest, I never weighted how much it is... You know, we let the cars in our parents' home when we moved to Paris. Then we are "obliged" to walk a alot as we do not like urban transportation.

Sometimes, during the weekend, we go for a long walk (maybe 3h or 4h) on an easy pace (so about 3km/h). We enjoy walking a lot. This is very natural, very pleasing and it also "clear" my mind and body. When I do not walk with Madame, I do rucking in the forest, for 1h, with 20kg in the back pack.

An excellent brand is Karrimor: Karrimor.com | Rucksacks

I also pay attention to the clothes (hot clothes for instance) to get used to the weather. Then I guess during the winter, I burn more calorie because I never used winter clothes.

Despite all these aerobic activities, I remain "lean" but not ripped or whatever. I am simply endurant.

@North Coast Miller
I like it a lot ! I used to dedicate a few sessions a week with an 8kg mace. It makes me, as you say, fairly "lean", because I already walk a lot. However, I felt it did not work a lot "raw strength and muscular endurance" (basically, carrying stuff, light or heavy and then walk with them). If you want, I can give you the different moves I used (I do not remember the names, but I wrote them on a paper at home). I used to work the mace with a timer: basically, 1 minute per move, during about 20 minutes.

However, it transfers very well to very smooth moves and also makes excellent stretching and grip training.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Bret S.]

@pet'
You should be ripped up with all that aerobic work, as @North Coast Miller has said it does come down to eating.
Personally I'm pretty lean and cut now even in the winter but I've always been a 'fast metabolism' guy. I can bulk but the last time I did it stretched the skin out and for the first time in my life it's not shrunk back to full tightness, but I'll be 60 in a few days so some of that is to be expected I suppose.
Thanks for the rucksack tip.. I'll check it out

 

[Tirofijo]

And let’s not kid ourselves, Hollywood is full of steroids. I totally respect Hardy for admitting he used them to prepare for Bane. Butler’s trainer basically outed him for 300. Bale’s like 50 kg swing (allegedly) from The Mechanic to Batman begins in 6 months. Nope. I don’t care personally . I just wish they would be honest.

I've read HGH is more popular due to less chance of acne. But whatever.

We might consider leaving Hollywood out of the discussions, give the PED usage and the fact that, yeah, if you pay me millions of dollars to star in big budget movie, besides ingesting anything under the sun, I will also dedicate multiple hours a day to training, wake up in the middle of the night to feed, and do other things that are out of the reach of a normal person.

Also, I don't trust the youtube clips or articles in Men's Health that purport to show the star's 'training regimes.' Those are just commercials for the movie. I wouldn't assume that's what the actor actually did. Maybe it is or maybe it isn't. It's boring to say 'I did 3x10 for the big lifts for six months with tons of accessory movements." It's cooler to show them doing something funky.

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Bret S.
You are welcome. I hope you'll find what you are looking for.

My abs are visible yes, but the lower part is not as clearly visible as the upper one. As a French, I enjoy food, I enjoy cooking, not only for me, but also for Madame... Yes, this is not an excuse but...for us, sitting at the table is a pleasing, quiet moment. Quality food and good taste is really a part of our way of life.

I think I am just not disciplined enough to follow a structured routine for long enough, to "see" results... I enjoy changing the routine quite often. The only program I followed for long time was S&S, until Simple, and then until "Solid" after a break.

For my body, what works best is "Charlie Hunnam's" style with a lot of repetitions. Indeed, I am never sore doing so, and I can do the training whenever I want, and more or less wherever I want. Doing the sets here and there give me a great energy boost. But the fact is I am afraid of joint overuse over time... When I was doing it, plus IF, yes I was ripped eheh

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Bret S.]

I've read HGH is more popular due to less chance of acne. But whatever.

We might consider leaving Hollywood out of the discussions, give the PED usage and the fact that, yeah, if you pay me millions of dollars to star in big budget movie, besides ingesting anything under the sun, I will also dedicate multiple hours a day to training, wake up in the middle of the night to feed, and do other things that are out of the reach of a normal person.

Also, I don't trust the youtube clips or articles in Men's Health that purport to show the star's 'training regimes.' Those are just commercials for the movie. I wouldn't assume that's what the actor actually did. Maybe it is or maybe it isn't. It's boring to say 'I did 3x10 for the big lifts for six months with tons of accessory movements." It's cooler to show them doing something funky.

Agreed.. I couldn't care less about 'hollywood' twits ..fake fake fake fake... and dare I say hypocrites

 

[Bret S.]

Hello,

@Bret S.
You are welcome. I hope you'll find what you are looking for.

My abs are visible yes, but the lower part is not as clearly visible as the upper one. As a French, I enjoy food, I enjoy cooking, not only for me, but also for Madame... Yes, this is not an excuse but...for us, sitting at the table is a pleasing, quiet moment. Quality food and good taste is really a part of our way of life.

I think I am just not disciplined enough to follow a structured routine for long enough, to "see" results... I enjoy changing the routine quite often. The only program I followed for long time was S&S, until Simple, and then until "Solid" after a break.

For my body, what works best is "Charlie Hunnam's" style with a lot of repetitions. Indeed, I am never sore doing so, and I can do the training whenever I want, and more or less wherever I want. Doing the sets here and there give me a great energy boost. But the fact is I am afraid of joint overuse over time... When I was doing it, plus IF, yes I was ripped eheh

Kind regards,

Pet'

My friend is moving to Sardinia, the lifestyle on your side of the pond has alot of greatness to it, more living squeezed into life, less stress, better diet, more time off from work, more family interaction with dining and socializing together, people walk more and obesity is way less of an issue.. all good stuff

I'm sure you're in fantastic shape my friend

 

[pet']

Hello,

@Bret S.
Oh, I do not complain at all, neither Madame hehe. One of the most important thing is to be in good general health, and being happy with what we have (both mentally and physically). IMO, this is the barely minimum for good balance.

Nonetheless, this is always interesting trying to get better This is a source of motivation.

Here is an old time French strongman and his routine. Quite curious but if he really trained like that, he got impressive results. The fun thing is that each exercise can be made harder by adding either weight, resistance band or grip
15-Minute Morning Workout Routine | The Art of Manliness
Adrian Peter Schmidt -

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[North Coast Miller]

Came across this video awhile back - Brolin's mobility/conditioning AM session and a typical back/shoulder day.

Stuff like this doesn't tell the whole story, but looking at the exercise and set/rep construction this is going to work for dang near anybody. I would probably have had him cycle bigger weights more often and fewer dropsets, but then I might have burned him out and Brolin is still carrying that build to this day. He probably isn't training this intensity anymore but who knows?

I can see resorting to juice if the BW needs to shift by a tremendous amount, but within 15-20 lbs and you need to get shredded you shouldn't need it. If you're a fairly average Joe and they need Goliath, at some point it comes down to casting and your agent - maybe this is a better role for the Rock....

 

[Deleted member 5559]

I hope this doesn't rub anyone the wrong way - because it's not intended to - but we are starting to sound like a bunch of whiners with excuses for why we don't look like movie super heros. PEDs aren't some miracle jacked formula and for the most part simply enhance the recovery in order to do more work in less time but still require the work to be done. The important part is that WE HAVE TO DO THE WORK! We all would look like heros if we put in the work for it.

Unfortunately, as a collective, we think 100 swings and 10 TGUs should be enough work to get there but it's not. It takes a lot of effort and demand to create the hero body and we just aren't putting in the required Specific Adaptation Imposed Demand (SAID) to create it. Most likely, because we don't need it. If it's not necessary, it's not necessary but at the end of the day the body will look like the performance that's demanded of it.