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Old Forum After reading two books on Paleo, my conclusions

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Rob Lawrence

Level 3 Valued Member
I will stay away from any potential food fights -- that's a lesson learned long ago on the DD forum.

As for the question above, dairy is out in the Paleo diet, but I personally am not avoiding it. I guess I can call my version "the Nuer diet."
 

Steve Freides

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Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Oh, man, I'm glad I don't feel the need to do this.  My general approach to eating is to eat little and very clean to start the day and get both larger in quantity and variety as the day goes on.

But we're talking about giving up things like the buttermilk biscuits I baked from scratch yesterday - now that is a serious thing.  It's 3:30 PM and I just had one after a wee bit of lifting followed by a 2-mile walk - a homemade buttermilk biscuit with lots of Kerrygold Irish Butter, chased down with a double-shot of espresso made from my home-roasted coffee.

Can't touch that.

-S-
 

danfaz

Level 2 Valued Member
@Steve...right on. Dang, those biscuits sound good! I've experimented with diets/eating programs over the last 25 years, and have come to the conclusion that anything extreme isn't good for me.

I follow a similar protocol of starting the day light and having a larger meal at the end of the day. I focus on whole foods, less processed and refined as possible. Everything seems to work out just fine. :)

 
 

Steve Freides

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Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Daniel, it works for me - nice to hear I'm not the only one. :)  I'm very picky these days about the food I buy, frequenting my local Whole Foods (affectionately known as Whole Paycheck) and Trader Joe's - I buy very little at the regular grocery store.  Cheese from grass-fed cattle, organic milk and cream, grass-fed beef, wild-caught fish, organic veggies.  It really makes a difference, IMHO.

-S-
 

Mattsirpeace

Level 4 Valued Member
Comparing The China Study to Pavel is a real insult to Pavel.  Just ask him about vegetarians and chickeneaters!  It's only worth reading if you want the mental exercise in critiquing bad science.

www.westonapricefoundation.com

www.perfecthealthdiet.com

Carbs are very individual.  I eat quite a bit -- raw milk, white rice, artisanal sourdough bread, dextrose.  Glucose yes, fructose, not so much.  I must be more evolved.  ;)

No poison -- trans fat, artificial sweeteners, chemicals, vegetable oils.
 

Murph

Level 1 Valued Member
Most paleo people still eat butter. I do. There is nothing wrong with it and it's actually very healthy for you. Other dairy products like cheese and milk have some problems for certain people but once in a while is fine. The poison is in the dose.

The china study data is actually very good but then the guy who wrote the book misused it to promote all sorts of falsehoods.
 

Rob Lawrence

Level 3 Valued Member
Want to be completely clear about one thing - a shift to "meats, leaves, berries" does not feel extreme to me in the least. It feels like a minor adjustment, even though I was raised in an Italian household and love pasta. You can get attached to anything, or detached from anything, with a little determined practice. Make no mistake, if my wife makes biscuits on Sunday morning or my fellow Italian neighbor invites us over for pasta, I will have some. No need for all or nothing thinking.
 

gdherman

Level 1 Valued Member
I agree with Rob and Steve.......tried strict Paleo for 10 months, great learning experience but more flexible now.  Just less dough than what i grew up on. Still listening to Robb Wolf though!
 

Rob Lawrence

Level 3 Valued Member
I have also listened to Robb Wolf and have also drawn a conclusion from that experience: namely, that people who deliver the terms "Norcal" and "Socal" in Keanu-like fashion make me laugh very hard. Even if their content is good.
 

Tyler Chism

Level 1 Valued Member
I didn't mean to start any controversy, and if you've read the book cover to cover then I respect your criticism. I don't mean to imply that the China study is the be all end all on nutrition, but ive done a ton of research on eating a whole foods plant diet to cure virtually any illness. As far as eating meat goes I like how the warrior diet portrays it: If you're going to eat meat like a carnivore than limit your intake to your one meal once a day or every few days like a carnivore would. But raw plant foods can be eaten all day long. This makes a lot of sense. Again, sorry for the trouble.

If you want a good documentary that supports alternative medicine and doesn't have anything bad to say about meat than watch "Food matters" also on netflix.
 

jgruginski

Level 3 Valued Member
Hey Tyler, I don't think you started any controversy. It's your opinion and you're welcome to have it. I think that there is probably some good data that Campbell gathered, but some of the interpretations weren't fully supported by the data. When you write a book that has some pretty accusatory tones in it, as China Study does, criticism will follow. Especially when a dinner of a medium cooked ribeye and garlic mashed potatoes or my wife's sausage and beef lasagna is so delicious!

You also said something very interesting about "eating a whole foods plant diet to cure virtually any illness". That to me, is very different than saying "meat causes illness". I don't think you're saying that , but it sure sounds like Campbell is. For me, it comes down to this: I can say in all honesty that a life without meat isn't a life I want to live. No homo.
 

Tyler Chism

Level 1 Valued Member
Also I hope yall don't think I'm a sissy la la hippy. I hunt a lot and I'll kill a hog, deer, turkey, or squirrel and I'll fry it up and have a feast, and i'll have no regrets about it. I am, however, a strong believer in the body's ability to heal itself and im a big believer in diet being responsible for a large majority of diseases, so any info i find supporting alternative medicine, and a diet based approach to disease, I support.

Gentlemen, power to you!
 

RussellPeele

Level 3 Valued Member
there's nothing wrong with being a hippy. or a vegan. or a hippy vegan!  Further, you can get plenty strong and muscular eating vegan (mike mahler). You have to be smart about it like he is though...
 

Mattsirpeace

Level 4 Valued Member
Controversy is fun, and sword-fighting is third-way cardio!  Campbell and Joel Fuhrman have the strongest arguments for near-vegetarianism, and there are good critiques in the thumbs-down book reviews at the WAPF website.  WAPF has a sympathetic article for vegetarians.  We all want to be healthy.

The caveman diet is a good starting point or null hypothesis.  In "Neanderthin" Ray Audette is zealous about it.  I've been tinkering on myself for years and concluded that with my genes and activity level I really am suited to dairy and carbs.  I also don't care that much for red meat and prefer grassfed milk & butter, eggs, wild salmon.
 

ideaman

Level 3 Valued Member
Good points by all. If any have read my thread on the massive failure of a Paleo diet my wife and I tried, you'll see how it resonates with what we intellectually knew to be true, and you all are saying in different ways... no one diet, or "eating protocol" works for everyone. We're all suited to different things. Kettlebells aren't for everyone, and low-carb, or vegan, or any other one thing isn't for everyone. Experiment around, but at the end of the day, track evidence so you know what works and what doesn't. Scans, blood panels, and of course overall sense of well being.
 
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