Bodyweight Al Kavadlo- Get strong

[malleus]

Did anyone read this : https://www.amazon.com/Get-Strong-Transformation-Strength-Using-Calisthenics-ebook/dp/B071VM4FZD ?
What do you think?

 

[Kettlebelephant]

Good for a beginner. I like Al Kavadlos stuff, but like most calisthenics books out there they show you all the exercises and progressions, but give little or no info on programming and if you couldn't at least perform 5 pullups and 20 pushups you feel kind of lost.
This gives you a programm with exact numbers for sets, reps and seconds (for the holds). Absolutely no guess work, just follow the path that's laid out in the book.
It also starts for total beginners (no pullup, hand elevated pushup, assisted squat) and progresses from there. It has several stages so if you are no total beginner you start at a different stage.
In the last stage you do things like archer pullups, archer pushups, toes-to-bars, pistols and stuff like that. If you're beyond that you'll probably have enough experience and ability and don't need the book.
IMO it's the much better version of Convict Conditioning.

Get Pushing the Limits, Raising the Bar and this book and you'll be covered for calisthenics. No need for any other material IMO (unless you want to go into real gymnastics with Iron Crosses and stuff like that).

 

[Pavel Macek]

My 2 cents: Progression Based vs. Principle Based Bodyweight Systems

You can find plenty of progressions in many books or videos. But our StrongFirst SFB Bodyweight is very different. SFB teaches you the principles behind, in Pavel's classical magic "do this, this, and this and... " - be amazed.

After SFB, many books can be useful - but not necessary. Without SFB... that is the question.

I still think The Naked Warrior & Hardstyle Abs are the best bodyweight strength training out there, and I am still amazed by the secrets (yes, secrets!) taught at our SFB Courses and Certs.

 

[305pelusa]

Got the eBook. Will echo @Kettlebelephant . He virtually read my mind with that post. Just wanted to second him.

You can find plenty of progressions in many books or videos. But our StrongFirst SFB Bodyweight is very different. SFB teaches you the principles behind, in Pavel's classical magic "do this, this, and this and... " - be amazed.

You might be surprised just how important choosing a correct progression is.

I still think The Naked Warrior & Hardstyle Abs are the best bodyweight strength training out there, and I am still amazed by the secrets (yes, secrets!) taught at our SFB Courses and Certs.

Lol "secrets". Just out of curiosity, could you name maybe one or two of them? Moments where you learned something that radically changed your approach to an exercise that you learned at the SFB

 

[Pavel Macek]

@305pelusa

Ad 1: I agree - but: the principles behind are equally, if not more important. I follow many bodyweight sources (name a book - I have read them all), and find them valuable, but nobody has summarised the principles as Pavel did. Reading The Naked Warrior was a real eye opener for me - I was doing various forms of bodyweight training for years, knew many of the principles from martial arts practice, but I never thought of applying them to strength training. What is more important, they are universal - one of the biggest benefits of SFB is getting stronger in anything else - barbell, kettlebell, dumbbell, take your pick.

Ad 2: My experience, my 2 cents - noting else. I am honestly still amazed by the material taught at SFB (I have btw. attended the very first SFB ever). I remember Pavel pointing to one page of the manual, summarising the main principles, and saying: "This page, ladies and gentlemen, took me 20 years". Absolutely no doubts about that.

I am not saying SFB is the best - I am saying it is very, very good. And btw. I love GymnasticBodies and Coach Sommer - I have purchased 2 of their courses, and their progressions are definitely one of the best I have ever seen as well (together with Overcoming Gravity).

 

[305pelusa]

one of the biggest benefits of SFB is getting stronger in anything else - barbell, kettlebell, dumbbell, take your pick.

That's the case for any Progressive Calisthenics program. As long as you're doing strength training, it will carry-over to other modalities. That's nothing unique to the SFB.

And btw. I love GymnasticBodies and Coach Sommer - I have purchased 2 of their courses, and their progressions are definitely one of the best I have ever seen as well (together with Overcoming Gravity).

Really? My personal experience was that both Foundation and their Stretch courses are pretty terrible. I'm guessing you haven't actually done them? After 8 months with Foundation (where I got much weaker) and 8 weeks of the Stretching courses (where I made no progress) I can confidently advice people not to buy them. The progressions are good but the programming is just the worst.

It wasn't until I followed Overcoming Gravity that I got my OACU back, and built up to a respectable Handstand, straddle Planche, Front Lever and so on. THAT program is excellent.

If you follow the Reddit bodyweight community, you're familiar with the poor progress people make with GBs and Ido's online coaching. And what great progress they do on OG, GMB and RR. These shouldn't be news to you. Ever since Sommers got rid of Joshua Naterman (Slizzardman for all you veterans), things have gone downhill.

I follow many bodyweight sources (name a book - I have read them all),

Umh I like this game. Have you read Complete Calisthenics by Ashley? Of course, it's one thing to read and one thing to apply. You can read all the bodyweight training you want (which I have done a lot of but will definitely not state that I've read all haha), but unless you actually follow a program by the book, you won't really get much out of it.

 

[Kozushi]

Good for a beginner. I like Al Kavadlos stuff, but like most calisthenics books out there they show you all the exercises and progressions, but give little or no info on programming and if you couldn't at least perform 5 pullups and 20 pushups you feel kind of lost.
This gives you a programm with exact numbers for sets, reps and seconds (for the holds). Absolutely no guess work, just follow the path that's laid out in the book.
It also starts for total beginners (no pullup, hand elevated pushup, assisted squat) and progresses from there. It has several stages so if you are no total beginner you start at a different stage.
In the last stage you do things like archer pullups, archer pushups, toes-to-bars, pistols and stuff like that. If you're beyond that you'll probably have enough experience and ability and don't need the book.
IMO it's the much better version of Convict Conditioning.

Get Pushing the Limits, Raising the Bar and this book and you'll be covered for calisthenics. No need for any other material IMO (unless you want to go into real gymnastics with Iron Crosses and stuff like that).

I'd like to know what the set-down exercises are that you work up to eventually. You wrote "stuff like that", so what other things?

 

[Pavel Macek]

@305pelusa

1) I am not talking of the transfer of bodyweight training to other modalities - what I mean is the transfer of the principles taught at SFB (feed-forward tension, corkscrew, active negative... ) to other modalities.

2) GB - yes, I have done it, and still do, but: I use the principles from Relax Into the Stretch, such as various modes of PNF stretching. As you can see, same subject: progressions + principles.

3) See, you got me - I have not read this book, I will certainly check it out, thank you for your recommendation. As for following a program, I have no problem with that at all - just check out my training log.

Respectfuly

 

[Maine-ah KB]

I haven't read Get Strong but the kavadlo brothers do put out a quality product. Street workouts is a nice book. funnily enough its becouse of the Kavadlos that i discovered Pavel.

 

[Kozushi]

I bought Kavadlo's two other popular books, "Pushing the Limits" and "Raising the Bar". I had already ordered his "Get Strong" book before this thread popped up, and I'm hoping to get it in the mail today or tomorrow and I'm really excited about that.

Kavadlo actually references Pavel's work a bit (he credits Pavel with the GTG method in his chinup book for instance), and I think there is cross pollination happening, and also that they complement each other quite well (and also compliment each other too)! Fitness is not a simple thing and having two great minds work on the terrifying problem of "how do I get strong with little to no equipment" is better than only one great mind. (Of course there are others, but I just don't know much about them.)

Kavadlo himself is a phenom, and his brother and friends too. His own training is lengthy and complicated. He's a truly great callisthenist. It's an art form for him and it goes far beyond the basics. More than anything his pushup and chinup books are inspirational for me. I enjoy the pictures. I enjoy considering or trying out the various fascinating moves contained therein. I'm not giving up S&S ever, so my study of callisthenics is as add-ons to S&S. Anyhow, I'm looking very much forward to getting this "Get Strong" book and I'll definitely be enjoying the read! None of his work contradicts "The Naked Warrior". His "push" book works towards the one arm pushup, one legged squat, and full back bridge. His "pullup" book works towards high volumes of pullups, dips and leg raises, with cool expansion moves included (explicitly as much for their entertainment value as for exercise). While he doesn't come out 100% clearly on this, it seems to me that according to his thinking if you do the three bar moves and add on the pistol squats, that you have a complete set of training moves. He clearly prefers the bar over floor moves. Anyhow cool stuff!

 

[Kozushi]

I guess what I'd say to compare the books I have so far from Kavadlo and from Pavel on callisthenics is that Pavel's book is the solid "how to get as strong as possible with no equipment" and Kavadlo's is "What you can do to exercise effectively with little to no equipment." I really think these statements sum up the difference between their books. As you can see, both perspectives are useful. For instance, is it necessary to "get as strong as possible" or is it necessary to merely "get strong"??? It depends. I think "as strong as possible" is better overall, but it's not necessarily important for everyone all the time. For instance, Kavaldo thinks highly of two legged bodyweight only squats, which weightlifters probably think very little of. However, if I'm not up to going through low rep progressions towards eventually doing sets of 5 pistols one day in the future but what I want is to get some good cardio and some gentle muscle strengthening, then indeed 2 legged bodyweight only squats are okay.

So, what I've taken from their combined work so far is that basically I want to follow the Naked Warrior programme plus chinups and some leg raises and dips. However, the knowledge of other moves that aren't as demanding as the Naked Warrior ones are definitely useful because who knows what constraints I'll be under due to injury or whatever?

Okay, this thread has piqued my interest greatly!

Here is an example of a workout I could do based on Kavadlo's books (with plenty of rest periods in there!):

• 5 sets of 10 or 10 sets of 10 bodyweight only 2 legged squats
• 5 sets of 2 pistols
• 5 sets of 4 chinups
• 3 sets of 1 archer pullups per side
• 5 sets of 4/5 dips (or 5 sets of 5 one arm pushups)
  
• 5 reps of a 10 second L-sit (on the dip bars or on the chinning bar)
• 3 sets of 2 one arm one leg pushups

When I'm at a campground in the summer time for a week or two, what moves will I be able to or want to do there? Kavadlo's work helps make sense of this problem. I don't have his urban environment book because I don't really live in this kind of a place nor do I train outside.

Before getting his books or even knowing about him, I added in "weaker" or "less strong" moves into my Naked Warrior training in the summertime in Korea. I did 10X10 regular pushups before getting into one arm ones. I also did as many sets of chinups a day to failure as I could. I did this stuff kind of by instinct because I wanted more than just maximum strength and I did happen to have access to a bit of equipment (in this case a chinup bar outside.)

 

[Kettlebelephant]

IMO Pavels work is different from Kavadlos (and any other calithenics author). You need to combine them.
@Pavel Macek talked about the principles taught at the SFB (tension, proper breathing, active negative etc.).
Yes those things are extremely helpful and applied correctly will instantly make you stronger in your lifts, but you still need to have progressions when it comes to calisthenics.
If you can do a couple of pullups and use the SF principles you get 1-2 more reps or you can use a bit more added weight, but they don't magically help you achieve e.g. an archer pullup.
I didn't dive deep into calithenics training, but I trust @305pelusa with his comment how important choosing the right progression can be. One of the reasons why I never really got deep into calisthenics was that for me the steps outlined in many of the other books wouldn't work. The little work I did with Kavadlos progressions was the first time those progressions/steps worked for me.

I'd like to know what the set-down exercises are that you work up to eventually. You wrote "stuff like that", so what other things?

I don't know if you know all the exercises, but to pass the final test you need to be able to do x reps of an exercise (the amount of reps are different for the different exercises).
The exercises are as followed:
Archer pushup
Arscher pullup
Handstand pushup
Toes to bar
Archer squat
Hover lunge
One leg squat
Candlestick straight bridge

Btw all exercises performed slow and under control. When people read toes-to-bar nowadays they think of those crossfit kipping toes-to-bars.

 

[Steve Freides]

@305pelusa, have you attended a StrongFirst certification or course?

-S-

 

[305pelusa]

1) I am not talking of the transfer of bodyweight training to other modalities - what I mean is the transfer of the principles taught at SFB (feed-forward tension, corkscrew, active negative... ) to other modalities.

I understand and agree.

@305pelusa, have you attended a StrongFirst certification or course?

-S-

Never. That's why I was asking Pavel about some of the "secrets" and eureka moments he experienced, just to get a sense of what he's saying.

2) GB - yes, I have done it, and still do, but: I use the principles from Relax Into the Stretch, such as various modes of PNF stretching. As you can see, same subject: progressions + principles.

So what have you achieved on Foundation? Hopefully better than mine! It seems like everybody is just stuck swiveling their hips and doing bent arm chin-up holds. Program has been out for years and no one has finished the curriculum yet.

PNF stretching is about 10^6 times better than the passive , once-a-week routines their Stretch series has you do. Good call on following Pavel here.

Pavel's book is the solid "how to get as strong as possible with no equipment" and Kavadlo's is "What you can do to exercise effectively with little to no equipment." I really think these statements sum up the difference between their books. As you can see, both perspectives are useful. For instance, is it necessary to "get as strong as possible" or is it necessary to merely "get strong"??? It depends. I think "as strong as possible" is better overall, but it's not necessarily important for everyone all the time.

I don't think that's totally fair to Al. He has you working up to Flags, OACUs, clapping OAPUs, etc. If that's not "getting as strong as possible", I don't know what is.

Also, don't let the illusion of TNW's "no-equipment" fool you. You're supposed to add a big pull if you want to do it long-term, which requires equipment. Also, for most, TNW requires more equipment because you need the boxes of correct height everytime you train. Al's method of using Cossack squats and archer Push-ups, on the other hand, is totally equipment-less.

I would just consider both of them "minimalist" in that sense.

 

[Kozushi]

I understand and agree.


Never. That's why I was asking Pavel about some of the "secrets" and eureka moments he experienced, just to get a sense of what he's saying.


So what have you achieved on Foundation? Hopefully better than mine! It seems like everybody is just stuck swiveling their hips and doing bent arm chin-up holds. Program has been out for years and no one has finished the curriculum yet.

PNF stretching is about 10^6 times better than the passive , once-a-week routines their Stretch series has you do. Good call on following Pavel here.


I don't think that's totally fair to Al. He has you working up to Flags, OACUs, clapping OAPUs, etc. If that's not "getting as strong as possible", I don't know what is.

Also, don't let the illusion of TNW's "no-equipment" fool you. You're supposed to add a big pull if you want to do it long-term, which requires equipment. Also, for most, TNW requires more equipment because you need the boxes of correct height everytime you train. Al's method of using Cossack squats and archer Push-ups, on the other hand, is totally equipment-less.

I would just consider both of them "minimalist" in that sense.

I don't think in binaries. Al's work allows for "getting as strong as possible" too, OF COURSE(!) but this is only one end of the spectrum. The new book "Get Strong" is different because it is a specific, layered progamme. I got this book in the mail yesterday and I'm reading through it carefully and slowly. I'm very pleased that it is a lot more complicated and unique than I had thought it would be! I'm clearly not a beginner with this stuff, so I have to find where I would place on the progressions chart. For example, were I to start following this programme, I would certainly not start with hands-elevated pushups or assisted 2 legged squats, doing those for 4 weeks, hahaha!!!

Like I've been trying to point out, his work in no way contradicts Pavel's. The Naked Warrior is a strength-only programme. Al's stuff is strength, conditioning, mobility. For instance, the variety of pushups Al has in his "Push" book are not there just for "more strength" but for strength in different directions. Good point about NW not really being a no-equipment programme. Al's "Push" book is no equipment, but his overall system preferences the bar a bit. Anyhow, due to my training for quite a while now, my body can handle more than just S&S, so I've been expanding into bodyweight and combining the lessons of NW with Al's work seems smart.

 

[Steve Freides]

@305pelusa, perhaps you should attend.

-S-

 

[malleus]

Interesting discussion! It is very nice to have someone like @305pelusa who is not "strongfirstly brainwashed"...

 

[305pelusa]

@305pelusa, perhaps you should attend.

-S-

Haha you've told me this many times. Steve, if it wasn't because they cost 1000 + dollars, I would consider it. Tag on a hotel, flight, transportation. It's not a good idea for me. I'm not a fitness professional so I wouldn't even get any use out of certifying myself as far as expanding my "client base" is concerned.

I got into calisthenics in the first place precisely because of a tight budget.

 

[305pelusa]

I'm clearly not a beginner with this stuff, so I have to find where I would place on the progressions chart. For example, were I to start following this programme, I would certainly not start with hands-elevated pushups or assisted 2 legged squats, doing those for 4 weeks, hahaha!!!

Get Strong doesn't seem like a good program for you at your level, I agree.

The Naked Warrior is a strength-only programme. Al's stuff is strength, conditioning, mobility.

Absolutely. The reason is because TNW is "how a girevik should approach calisthenics". It says this. "You'll be better off with your KBs, BBs but if the situation requires no equipment, here's a solution". Hence, it's minimalist because it was meant to be a substitute. "How to make due without equipment".

Al's work is totally different (Raising the Bar and Pushing the Limits I mean). It fully rejects weight training and produces a complete system out of calisthenics. His focus is still in Progressive Calisthenics though. Al has you doing 2 legged squats only if that's your level. Otherwise, you move on.
It's very similar to most calisthenics strength programs out there in that sense. It's only unique because of Al's unique training style (which is very not-regimented and freestyled).

 

[Kozushi]

Get Strong doesn't seem like a good program for you at your level, I agree.


Absolutely. The reason is because TNW is "how a girevik should approach calisthenics". It says this. "You'll be better off with your KBs, BBs but if the situation requires no equipment, here's a solution". Hence, it's minimalist because it was meant to be a substitute. "How to make due without equipment".

Al's work is totally different (Raising the Bar and Pushing the Limits I mean). It fully rejects weight training and produces a complete system out of calisthenics. His focus is still in Progressive Calisthenics though. Al has you doing 2 legged squats only if that's your level. Otherwise, you move on.
It's very similar to most calisthenics strength programs out there in that sense. It's only unique because of Al's unique training style (which is very not-regimented and freestyled).

Thank you. This helps me understand the purposes of the two systems better.

In other words, Pavel's system is to stay strong when away from your weights for a while whereas Kavadlo's is a complete "poor man's" system of strength training and conditioning. Maybe Kavadlo's work obviates the need for an SF full "bodyweight book" but I'd love it if one were created. I notice in the certification courses, SF bodyweight has several moves above and beyond the two in NW.

I've been "dabbling" in bodyweight moves heavily over the past month accompanying my restarting of martial arts training and I'm thrilled with the progress. Why am I doing this? Bodyweight moves are very heavy moves relative to the kettlebells I use and take no time to perform, and also don't need to become big cardio events. Why is this all important? Because with 4 days of hard core martial arts training a week, I don't always have a lot of "gas in my tank" left over for daily S&S. So, am I going to do NOTHING on a weak or tired day or on a day of heavy training, or am I going to do several sets of chinups and/or one arm pushups, or some pistols? The answer is obvious! I'm going to do them! I need the strength for me and my sports!

I've read through Kavadlo's "Get Strong" book now to the point where I've read through his phases of exercises, and I'm pretty sure I'm at the beginning of phase 3. There are 4 phases. I'm not doing the handstand stuff against the wall because my walls aren't made for that kind of thing - the plaster or wallpaper will get worn. I might try replacing them with dips, since I have a parallel bar set I made a long time ago.

His book is in my words "the poor man's gym". Until I can do all that stuff and reach Sinister, I can't imagine why I'd ever want to visit a gym, and honestly once I can do Sinister and archer pullups and pistols and one arm one leg pushups, why would I need to get any stronger anyhow? I'm 100kg and if I can move my own weight around with ease, I can move yours around too!