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Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic

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George Vrotsos said:
On hand care, do you guys re-chalk between repeats or just at the start of the workout?
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Depends on your hands and the environment. I have dry hands and live in a fairly dry environment. I chalk lightly once, maybe twice in a long session.
George Vrotsos said:
When you have a mild blood blister that hasn't popped yet, do you take time off, train through it or something else?
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sometimes i tape over it and keep training. Rarely are blood blisters an issue though.
 
This a + a is for real!

May i share my experience as one rather new to this:

I've been working on getting back into s&s since hurting my shoulders terribly (in fact, pretty much my entire body) the past few months 2 x/wk with 20kg.

Past 3 wks I've gone to a s&s 4x/wk and easy strength 2x/wk.
Just went to the 24kg 10 days ago and struggled with power and grip for a couple of days.

Saw this amazing thread, and loved what Harald has accomplished. Decided to cut reps to 5 and increase sets gradually, keeping it a+a. Never done more than 10 sets a session(have done swings for a few years semi-regularly), self taught).

Suddenly my grip got strong, the power crisp, and the feeling of calmness during training. Became a meditation almost immediately as opposed to huffin' and puffin' and still unable to blow a house down.

In just a few sessions I am amazed at what I did, (not impressive by anyone else's standard, just my own):

20 x 5
20 x 5
28 x 5
20 x 5
and this evening- 50 x 5 in 55mins!

I'm taken aback somewhat, as it wasn't really a challenge. Would have got to 60 sets easy but it was heading near midnight and I was getting unusually hungry growls in my belly.

I feel like I found something very special, and hopefully
will continue this forever.

Not sure what step to take next, butI feel amazingly light on my feet (a tough gig at 5'7, 103kg ;) and just joyful.

Here's a couple of graphics...

Screenshot_20200330-235328_Polar Beat.jpg20200330_235421.jpg
 
Thanks Anna, i will look into that. Much appreciated.

After a 6 hr sleep last night, I feel the usual afternoon tiredness, but the 50 sets of 1h swings last night has not left me destroyed in the usual manner after a training session. This is truly amazing.

Perhaps I will start introducing the 28kg very slowly for a rep or two along with the 24. Any suggestions?

Another q- has anyone done a long session like this of TGUs? Although not a+a because of the time under tension, it would an interesting project. I'd imagine a concentric-only TGU would be appropriate here.

Concentric TGUs are how I fixed my destroyed right knee (along with quarter squats in the rack with 190kg), as well as my very fragile shoulders. I believe avoiding the eccentric movement not only reduced it by 50% but like running downhill with a bad knee, TGUs also don't feel right while self-rehabbing.
 
I used to do a Bent Press/Reverse TGU combo, a rep OTM, for up to 40 minutes. I liked it a lot, a shoulder injury got in the way. I am working to get it back. Lots of ways to mix that combo and A+A or Q+D snatching .
 
2accidental said:
Perhaps I will start introducing the 28kg very slowly for a rep or two along with the 24. Any suggestions?
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I have used with success 2 strategies to increase weight in A+A (on different occasions):

1 - Use the heavier weight once a week in its own session, with less reps of course. Start easy. For example, once a week use the 28 and do sets of 3 or 4 (depending on how they feel). I did that with the 24 as my bread and butter and the 32 in sets of 3. The number of repeats was smaller also. Once the number of repeats reaches the number of repeats you would do with the lower weight on an "easy" session, you can introduce a second training session with the higher weight and so on, and eventually add more reps per set. After a while, you will be doing sets of 5 with the 28, not the 24, for all sessions.

2 - Do a Quick and the Dead (Q&D) run with the 24 for 4-8 weeks. I can almost guarantee that you will be able to snatch the 28 for sets of 5 in A+A training after that. You may even have to use a 20kg for Q&D and do a session once in a while with the 24 (with less reps per repeat) if necessary.
 
I can attest to the effectiveness of option 2. Pre-Q+D testing gave me three scary reps with 28kg (you would think if the first rep was scary, I would stop, wouldn't you?), and 20kg for my Q+D 'bell. A re-test, six weeks into my first 12 week run at Q+D yielded 6 solid reps each arm with 28kg.

I am about to take my first run at straight up A+A. Respecting my age and current injuries, I plan to build up to the 40 repeat volume with the 20 kg, then again with the 24 kg, and then really dig in with the 28 kg. Three A+A sessions per week and ruck on Saturday (While maintaining proper social distancing, of course)!
 
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Another way to cook the ruck/A+A split I've found to be fairly helpful this past week is I do my A+A or S+S session in the morning and then ruck in the afternoons for 30-40 minutes, focusing on aerobic, working at the lower heart rate ranges for my aerobic system. I've been using the Maffetone number of 144 BPM so the vast majority of my run/ruck work is intended to not exceed this number when running or rucking. Sadly swimming is out of the picture thru this pandemic.
 
spring season, snatch season. Blossom of A+A:



this is my latest snatch session. Was a nice chilly evening in spring. This can happen, when you are doing A+A for to long and forget to quit on that stuff. I think it drives home a point A+A: doing lots of alactic work with a medium heavy bell, while recovering aerobically. Sometimes I just like myself go on session until a handful of blisters. Snatchaerobics.
 
What are the A+A 101/for dummies etc?

What would be The beginner protocol for someone who has never tried it? Duration, sets, reps, bell weight, frequency?
 
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Mixed a 1,2,3 ladder of two kettlebell cleans with dvukhpudoviks today for my A+A work and no kidding my heart rate spiked up to 153 BPM at least once in a one hour session.
 
What do you think of the following training plan?
I made it using percentages from Pavel's article "From Simple to Sinister". I only changed the numbers so the average number of repeats is 30. I also changed it for three days per week, so it's more lifestyle-friendly, at least for some.
The numbers are numbers of repeats, not reps.
I know that let-your-hands-do-the-programming approach is sufficient, nevertheless, I'm a person who loves and needs structure and Pavel really bought me with the fractal construction of the original training plan.
Let me know what you think.

WEEK​
MON​
WED​
FRI​
WEEKLY WAVE%​
WEEKLY VOLUME​
Total​
AVG DAILY​
DELTA​
1​
24​
18​
12​
15.00%​
54​
360​
30​
6​
2​
30​
24​
18​
20.00%​
72​
3​
42​
36​
30​
30.00%​
108​
4​
48​
42​
36​
35.00%​
126​
 
Pasibrzuch said:
What do you think of the following training plan?
I made it using percentages from Pavel's article "From Simple to Sinister". I only changed the numbers so the average number of repeats is 30. I also changed it for three days per week, so it's more lifestyle-friendly, at least for some.
The numbers are numbers of repeats, not reps.
I know that let-your-hands-do-the-programming approach is sufficient, nevertheless, I'm a person who loves and needs structure and Pavel really bought me with the fractal construction of the original training plan.
Let me know what you think.

WEEK​
MON​
WED​
FRI​
WEEKLY WAVE%​
WEEKLY VOLUME​
Total​
AVG DAILY​
DELTA​
1​
24​
18​
12​
15.00%​
54​
360​
30​
6​
2​
30​
24​
18​
20.00%​
72​
3​
42​
36​
30​
30.00%​
108​
4​
48​
42​
36​
35.00%​
126​
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Perfect. You then can keep going on week 5 with doing week 2...crank up the volume at some point by say 15% by multiplying each number by 1,15 You might do a deload every 6 or 8 weeks...do a week 2 sessions, another 4 ...Well done.
 
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Pasibrzuch said:
...changed it for three days per week, so it's more lifestyle-friendly, at least for some..
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That's a great way to structure things. Another "lifestyle-friendly" mod I often make is to spread the reps on the big weeks out over more days. For me, it's often easier to train more days a week than it is to have some days be short (12) and other to be 4 times a much time (48). So, what I'll do is split up the 15% weeks over 3 days, the 20% and 30% days over 4 days and the 35% over 5 days. The days within the week also follow a delta 20-ish plan. Then you pick an order for the weeks and an order for the days. Here's an example of how I'd mod your program. This keeps the day-to-day range smaller. Of course, it's nice to have those long days, that's what the whole delta-20 is about. But with kids running around, sometimes it makes sense to spread the volume out.

Day 1Day 2Day 3Day 4Day 5
Week 1201612
Week 220161410
Week 326201614
Week 42822181412
 
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thought I share a session of yesterday. I said it elswhere, that the guidelines of A+A can be applied to any lift you are competent with:
take decently heavy weight. Keep the reps low. Focus on form with each repeat. Rest until your breathing settled down and normalized. Repeat, until you have enough but not until form breaks down.

Yesterday I did get ups with 48 on the minute, I had a rough idea to go for 45 or an hour, I was unsure how my body and systems would react. After around half an hour I was in a good flow and was surprised that my hr stayed stable. The get ups got efficient and a rep lasted around 20sec, I rolled the bell to the other side laid down on my back and breathed deeply in and out for recovery of the next rep. So it turned out that on the minute with this intensity/bell was just the perfect work/rest ratio. I stayed very aerobic and eventualy went to 100 reps.

Keep in mind "true A+A" is intended with short bouts of kb ballistics to hit the fast fibers which rely on the Alactic ATP/CrP system.

I just want to make a point, that the general reasonable guidelines can be applied to any lift. It is not A+A. The getup might be as far from a ballistic as it can get. With the right amount of recovery putting in a lot of work is possible. Essentially no big deal really it is just reasonable and easy to grasp.

The ability to recover is powered by the aerobic system. The other side of the coin of A+A training as Al Ciampa teaches it. Putting work into development of the aerobic base by doing traditional aerobic work like hiking, rucking, jogging, biking, rowing...


 
Harald Motz said:
100 reps.
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100 reps.

100 get-ups with 48kg. OTM

That's Sinister X 10, on the get-ups.

Insane!!! ????

This is one more amazing feat to add to Harald's other training sessions such as completing Sinister, running a marathon, 100 x 5 reps snatches with 32kg, 100 deadifts with 407 lb... I know there have been many more but those are off the top of my head. Dedicated, focused, consistent, smart training. Humble and generous in sharing the knowledge gained. Thank you, @Harald Motz !!
 
@Harald Motz an interesting (and frighteningly strong) session. I would consider this a unique strength endurance session, similar to a Strength Aerobics although there is less "spreading of fatigue" like a clean + squat + press Str.Aer session would have.

Some random thoughts I had as I read your post
- does not hit the fast fibers, so is not "A+A" as you pointed out.
- While grinds like this may not build the aerobic system as A+A does a practice in aerobic recovery, slowing breathing, etc. is there nonetheless
- strength endurance is obviously a desirable quality, and this session is arguably elite in that respect
- it would be interesting to build a program/plan out for a quality like this in terms of weekly volume, intensity, etc. ; While Al's "Simple to Serious Endurance" focuses on power endurance, one could theoretically aim for strength endurance with something like this. I would see this/Str.Aer type sessions as another option after one has completed "Simple" if that quality is the goal.
- follows the guiding principles of moderate to high intensity, work:rest ratio, adequate recovery, etc.
 
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