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Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic

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With A+A I use(d) mostly the one arm snatch. I did for a few weeks heavy clean & pushpress singles, worked also great. It is in my opinion the best method to be getting familiar to a lift and improve it quite quickly...another time just common sense and reasonable when you do a lift over and over again for low reps minimizing factors that lead to fatigue.

With an A+A session I usually use one lift.


This actually would make up for a pretty good template...I follow no real logic there 1-3 A+A per week 3-6 hex/press cluster. They ebb and flow into each other.


Summs it up pretty well. The last weeks months I use the cluster singles extensively. Basically it plays out of a single rep on 30 sec for 4-6 singles a cluster. This continuum can shift to emom and A+A which seems to me as a kind of open end to some degree. By now I have found personally a pretty good grasp of a few basic things I can work with for a very long time


Thank you.
I’ve always struggled with over complicating training because of overload of information available, but since being restricted to training at home with minimal equipment, I’ve been alternating days of one arm snatch and Armor Building Complex, using A+A protocol for both. For snatch I’ve been doing 20-30 total repeats and ABC I’ve been doing 10-15 repeats. I’m already feeling the improvements to my snatch and grip strength, and also starting to improve body composition from ABC. I mix in some low volume TGU and Deadlift as well.
 
Thank you.
I’ve always struggled with over complicating training because of overload of information available, but since being restricted to training at home with minimal equipment, I’ve been alternating days of one arm snatch and Armor Building Complex, using A+A protocol for both. For snatch I’ve been doing 20-30 total repeats and ABC I’ve been doing 10-15 repeats. I’m already feeling the improvements to my snatch and grip strength, and also starting to improve body composition from ABC. I mix in some low volume TGU and Deadlift as well.


Hi Trevor, I'm not familiar with some abbreviations here. What is ABC? Thanks!
 
Has anyone run A+A with double kettlebell clean and press? I feel like single C+P would not be enough stimulus for the legs given the limiting factor of the press.

Or is A+A for single bells or ballistics only? Would it work with double C+J? If only single, has anyone run it with single C+J or single clean and push press? Damn I am interested in A+A!
 
I've run the 044 protocol from Q&D on single bell viking push press... I think the grinds would build up to much tension and lactate etc. I would stick to ballistics, but that's just me and my understanding of it. Doing 30min + of presses with any kind of significant weight to deplete the CrP would for sure defeat the purpose IMO.

With that being said, the strength aerobics type protocols have grinds in them. I would just stick to 1 rep per exercise and use the talk test to base recovery... just string 3-4 movements in a 1 rep chain.
 
Has anyone run A+A with double kettlebell clean and press? I feel like single C+P would not be enough stimulus for the legs given the limiting factor of the press.

Or is A+A for single bells or ballistics only? Would it work with double C+J? If only single, has anyone run it with single C+J or single clean and push press? Damn I am interested in A+A!
I've done c&j and push press in the past. From memory I did them in repeats of 2 which seemed to work well. I've not tried the clean and press, but I have done a few sessions of the bent press just to see how it would feel and singles worked best with a heavier weight (32 - 40 kg).
 
A + A is the gift that keeps giving.

Used the 20kg a couple of times a week last year and up to feb/mar this year. 24kg was seeming quite difficult but as I mentioned recently, it took just a few a + a sessions took me to 50 sets/repeats x 5r with the 24kg.

Surprisingly, the 28kg, which seemed a pipe dream for the last few years (i did get it down in 2018 once or twice before i got hurt wrestling), went flying easy in just 2 sessions.

I did one session of random ladders- 1l 1r, then 3, then 2, 1, 3, 4 etc.

Then last night, i set the timer for 30 mins and got 20 sets of 5 fairly easy, and even got 2 extra sets of 10r. Incredible!

I think getting to 50 x 5r wrill not longer be a fantasy. Am i asleep? Someone...anyone?! ;)
 
Armor Building Complex. 2 double cleans, 1 overhead press and 3 front squats all in a set. Feels really good for me with about 60 secs between sets to recover.

Thanks for the nifty idea. That's yet another way to cook this great beast called Alactic and Aerobic...
 
@Harald Motz or anyone else, ever do double swings a+a?

After a few years of snatching i am tending to prefer the simplicity of heavy swings these days.
 
I've not done them with double bells but I have done several 4-6 week periods with a t-handle and it worked great!
I've also been doing them, past several weeks with T-handle. Currently at about 66% bodyweight. Really enjoy the challenge and the heavier weight has been teaching me a lot about small power leaks and form glitches I might never have even noticed at lower weight
 
Has anyone run A+A with double kettlebell clean and press? I feel like single C+P would not be enough stimulus for the legs given the limiting factor of the press.

Or is A+A for single bells or ballistics only? Would it work with double C+J? If only single, has anyone run it with single C+J or single clean and push press? Damn I am interested in A+A!
I haven't, but check this article by @Geoff Neupert that kind of addresses this question.

 
I think this idemonstrates the nature of the get-up -- Past a medium-heavy weight, doing get-ups is not always the best training for being able to do get-ups... or much else, for that matter. There are better ways to train, which is exactly what Harald has been doing. And then he can do 100 get-ups with the beast.
Hmm! This is really interesting. And possibly extremely controversial? Do you mind elaborating on the thinking behind it? I'm not doubting it. After all, Harold's insane effort seems like proof! :)

Some questions I have are:

1. At what point does doing TGUs cease to be the best way to improve TGUs?

2. If past a certain weight, other lifts, such as the snatch and press, improve TGU strength more than the TGU itself, then why do TGUs at all? Why not go straight to the main lift from the beginning?

I suspect one answer will be that TGUs offer a bunch of mobility benefits more than just weight itself?
 
Disclaimer: These are just my opinions... no science or data or agreement from others is implied.

1. At what point does doing TGUs cease to be the best way to improve TGUs?

It depends on the individual, so I'll stick with "medium-heavy." Maybe average of 36kg for men and 32kg for women. Note that the effective training weight is relatively higher for women, because we have less potential to add upper body mass... therefore the time under tension and specific practice become more important for progress.

2. If past a certain weight, other lifts, such as the snatch and press, improve TGU strength more than the TGU itself, then why do TGUs at all? Why not go straight to the main lift from the beginning?

That would be one option, but some TGUs are necessary to get good and skilled and strong at them. The smaller stabilizing muscles do get fatigued easier, even when the prime movers get strong. This is what I experienced when doing 32kg TGUs after doing barbell strength training for a while. I could still do them, and certain parts became easier (press-up from the floor, lunge, standing) but stabilizing the bell was harder and I don't think I could have done multiple reps as easily as I could when doing them regularly.

And, yes, TGUs do offer a lot of benefits in movement quality and what we might call "functional strength." So they're a great exercise for strength training beginners, minimalists, and for everyone to do at least some of the time.
 
After all, Harold's insane effort seems like proof! :)

'Harald's insane effort" (100 48kg TGUs OTM) brings up another interesting line of thought specific to being able to do this long session of TGUs.... and that is "fatigue resistance."

What type of muscle fibers are fatigue resistant? Slow-twitch.

What builds slow-twitch muscle fiber in the upper body? Rowing... Which Harald has done a lot of. And perhaps long sessions of A+A, using the same muscle groups that are used for TGUs... such as heavy snatches.

Could it be that Harald uses a higher percentage of slow-twich fiber to do what he does, relative to most of us when moving heavy weight?

Interested in any thoughts... especially @Harald Motz @Al Ciampa
 
'Harald's insane effort" (100 48kg TGUs OTM) brings up another interesting line of thought specific to being able to do this long session of TGUs.... and that is "fatigue resistance."

What type of muscle fibers are fatigue resistant? Slow-twitch.

What builds slow-twitch muscle fiber in the upper body? Rowing... Which Harald has done a lot of. And perhaps long sessions of A+A, using the same muscle groups that are used for TGUs... such as heavy snatches.

Could it be that Harald uses a higher percentage of slow-twich fiber to do what he does, relative to most of us when moving heavy weight?

Interested in any thoughts... especially @Harald Motz @Al Ciampa
Anna, thank you, those are good thoughts.

I love the TGU and like to hear approaches to TGU progressions.

I also wonder what is Harald‘s max TGU. I think I saw him doing 10 TGU @ 60Kg on IG... so maybe around 70Kg? This would mean 48kg is 68% of his RM...
 
@Harald Motz or anyone else, ever do double swings a+a?

After a few years of snatching i am tending to prefer the simplicity of heavy swings these days.
I did not. But if you want to do them, do them.

1. At what point does doing TGUs cease to be the best way to improve TGUs?
The get up has two "hard parts" 1. roll to ellbow 2. lunge to standing.

it might be a pretty good approach if one wants to go really heavy on the get up to overload these parts by doing some volume work on these two elements.

And, yes, TGUs do offer a lot of benefits in movement quality and what we might call "functional strength." So they're a great exercise for strength training beginners, minimalists, and for everyone to do at least
The get up is the '(oldtime) strongmen mentor' like it's paraphrased in s&s. The mere fact, that it 'slows' or calms one down. The get up in itself has its duration and I am ever enjoying the fact that you do a getup, collect yourself breathe in and out and when you are up to it you do the next. It goes a bit beyond the reps × set mentality. Lifts can be practiced. Get ups, bent press anyhows and the likes like to be practiced.

Could it be that Harald uses a higher percentage of slow-twich fiber to do what he does, relative to most of us when moving heavy weight?

Interested in any thoughts... especially @Harald Motz @Al Ciampa
When we think of the muscle fibers we begin to differentiate. Some voices say there are three types, another might say there six...or ten. At least there is one organism.

I like 'Uphill Athlete' viewpoint also the containing statement: all models are wrong, some are useful.
Slow fibers mitochondria as a sink for the fast fibers pyruvate production. Slow fibers mitochondria are built by long easy endurance work. Then for athletic performance HIT is used sparingly (before comp) to "shuttle" the pyruvate built in the fast(er) fibers into the slow fibers mitochondria. They can make use of it to produce some energy/ATP. With that lactate accumulation is kept low(er) when compared to poor aerobic development.

The probability that I've trained the slower fibers in my upper body via rowing is rather high, as I usually keep my intensity far below MAF, and I accumulated a few 10k rows over some years now. The fruits of aerobic development hang really low. A nice picture is the bee flying from flower to flower accumulating nectar. Flowers are often close to the ground.

I also wonder what is Harald‘s max TGU. I think I saw him doing 10 TGU @ 60Kg on IG... so maybe around 70Kg? This would mean 48kg is 68% of his RM...

Here is my heaviest 'up' as I was to weak to be getting down again. Note that the technique or lack thereof is not 'standard' I cheated onto the elbow, and struggled from lunge to standing.

But I think your thinking is not far off. The % model is quite useful. But also wrong as my 100% today can be 95 or 105 tomorrow...haha.
 
Thank you for the video Harald. Impressive. How heavy was the dumbbell?

I like the % model. And the % to BW. I believe it helps to frame the lift. As you said and they say in UA all models are wrong, some are useful. ;)
 
@Harald Motz Im getting back into A+A snatches. Here is today’s 32kg 4r x 12 (NL: 48) to ease into it.
 

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