Kettlebell Alactic + Aerobic

[2accidental]

'Harald's insane effort" (100 48kg TGUs OTM) brings up another interesting line of thought specific to being able to do this long session of TGUs.... and that is "fatigue resistance."

What type of muscle fibers are fatigue resistant? Slow-twitch.

What builds slow-twitch muscle fiber in the upper body? Rowing... Which Harald has done a lot of. And perhaps long sessions of A+A, using the same muscle groups that are used for TGUs... such as heavy snatches.

Could it be that Harald uses a higher percentage of slow-twich fiber to do what he does, relative to most of us when moving heavy weight?

Interested in any thoughts... especially @Harald Motz @Al Ciampa

Harald, do you have a polar read out from when you did the 100 tgus? That would be interesting to see. My heart rate goes up a bit more on tgus than swings.

Anna, you make 32 sound lile a breeze for tgus while struggle with 28. This is just not fair...!

 

[2accidental]

Harald, do you have a polar read out from when you did the 100 tgus? That would be interesting to see. My heart rate goes up a bit more on tgus than swings.

Anna, you make 32 sound lile a breeze for tgus while struggle with 28. This is just not fair...!

Meant to read 'like a breeze...while I struggle...'

 

[Bauer]

Harald, do you have a polar read out from when you did the 100 tgus? That would be interesting to see.

It is on the second slide, so you might need to swipe.

 

[2accidental]

It is on the second slide, so you might need to swipe.

Cheers. That is incredible EMOM.

Approximately 30 secs rest between reps?

 

[njrick1]

Great content!
Do you think adding pushups/ pull ups to A+A swing/sbatching could be too much for some?
If not would you recommend either
A. A+A swing or snatch followed by the fighter pull up program
B. Performing the swing/snatch/push up and pull up all in A+A guidelines
C. Something else...

Thank you!

 

[Harald Motz]

Cheers. That is incredible EMOM.

Approximately 30 secs rest between reps?

A rep was a bit more than 20 sec. Rolloing the bell to the other side gave me pretty 30 sec lying on the floor.

Great content!
Do you think adding pushups/ pull ups to A+A swing/sbatching could be too much for some?
If not would you recommend either
A. A+A swing or snatch followed by the fighter pull up program
B. Performing the swing/snatch/push up and pull up all in A+A guidelines
C. Something else...

Thank you!

I am not familiar with the fighter pull up program.

Personally I keep my snatch session pure snatch. Some folks like to do 5 reps of pushups every ....so repeats.

An interesting way of having everything could be: keeping A+A snatch A+A snatch (or swing).
Then do pushups and/or pullups seperatly on other days or some hours apart the A+A session.
For some focused time efficiency reasons and slight build up into fatigue use the 033 or 044 time frame template from q&d. Either bodyweight or with additional resistance. Adjust the reps per set accordingly. The 'programming' guidelines for a session or week from q&d are fitting well.

When doing A+A snatches or any other ballistic I would recommend to keep that as the 'volume horse' adding other stuff also high volume might be to much.

 

[John K]

@Harald Motz and @Al Ciampa This thread has been a very interesting read. I look forward to incorporating what I've learned here. Thank you for taking the time and dedication to build and develop this thread.

 

[njrick1]

A rep was a bit more than 20 sec. Rolloing the bell to the other side gave me pretty 30 sec lying on the floor.



I am not familiar with the fighter pull up program.

Personally I keep my snatch session pure snatch. Some folks like to do 5 reps of pushups every ....so repeats.

An interesting way of having everything could be: keeping A+A snatch A+A snatch (or swing).
Then do pushups and/or pullups seperatly on other days or some hours apart the A+A session.
For some focused time efficiency reasons and slight build up into fatigue use the 033 or 044 time frame template from q&d. Either bodyweight or with additional resistance. Adjust the reps per set accordingly. The 'programming' guidelines for a session or week from q&d are fitting well.

When doing A+A snatches or any other ballistic I would recommend to keep that as the 'volume horse' adding other stuff also high volume might be to much.

Awesome advice thank you! My only hesitatation with quick and the dead is the fact that it appears to be more of a bus bench program (although I could be wrong here) and I am more attracted to the park bench nature of A+A. It still might be worth a go however. Other than that, alternating A+A days with pushups and pulls sounds fantastic!

 

[Harald Motz]

Awesome advice thank you! My only hesitatation with quick and the dead is the fact that it appears to be more of a bus bench program (although I could be wrong here) and I am more attracted to the park bench nature of A+A. It still might be worth a go however. Other than that, alternating A+A days with pushups and pulls sounds fantastic!

I mean to use the timing scheme from "q&d" without the ballistic for pushups and pullups alternated in a session, or a session just pushups or pullups. With this version very short mini sessions can be accumulated.

Personally when I do q&d 033 the pushups are kind of a "very active rest" from the full body power ballistic. Doing "only" upper body moves can surely be done for volume accumulation.

 

[2accidental]

Thanks Harald. TGUs for a long session of repeats is something that i believe would have great value.

Any thoughts if TGUs come under a+a though? The time under tension is so different to ballistics, perhaps it would be rather glycolytic at this density? Would that be a stress inducing session if done too frequently?

Love this thread, been a life changer for me...

 

[rwleonard]

I asked a similar question in this thread:

Kettlebell - Where does this fit?

A few years back, I did a Bent Press/Reverse TGU combo, eventually working up to being able to do 40 minutes of reps OTM when feeling spunky and 20-30 like brushing my teeth with a 32kg. This had great carry over to BJJ, giving a nice balance of endurance, strength, and mobility. My...

www.strongfirst.com

 

[njrick1]

I mean to use the timing scheme from "q&d" without the ballistic for pushups and pullups alternated in a session, or a session just pushups or pullups. With this version very short mini sessions can be accumulated.

Personally when I do q&d 033 the pushups are kind of a "very active rest" from the full body power ballistic. Doing "only" upper body moves can surely be done for volume accumulation.

Very cool idea, thank you! Would 3 A+A swing sessions and 2 q and d style push up and pull sessions per week be reasonable?

An alternative idea would be easy strength style dips and chins. 5 reps, 2 sets, 5 times per week. This might leave me more fresh for my A+A swings/snatches, but I am not expert so I would love to hear your thoughts...

 

[rwleonard]

Back to the TGU's OTM: Has anybody here tried, or have thoughts on, block training with say two weeks of A+A or QnD snatches alternated with two weeks of TGU's OTM? Always with a ruck or two in each block.

Seems like a simple way to program the two for a fair amount of volume in each. I, for one, don't think my elbows or shoulders would take trying to do appreciable volume of both at the same time.

 

[Pasibrzuch]

1) I have a question on recovery between repeats: in A+A you have to recover sufficiently, but is there something like "too much" recovery? I'm asking because completing 30 repeats of 5 snatches (28kg) took me 1 hour, so ~a repeat every two minutes. Is it normal and I will gradually get better or I have to do more sessions of easy locomotion work? And yes, I stopped my Beast swings and sold out for snatches.

2) in his last article Pavel recommends doing burpees in a way that allows you to

rest between reps long enough to sustain an aerobic effort for over 30 minutes. For instance, do a rep, slowly walk to one end of the room, walk back, do another rep… Or do a rep using a timer once every “N” seconds.

Has anyone tried it with snatches? Like 1 snatch every "N" seconds. Would it still have A+A benefits?

 

[Sean M]

1) I have a question on recovery between repeats: in A+A you have to recover sufficiently, but is there something like "too much" recovery? I'm asking because completing 30 repeats of 5 snatches (28kg) took me 1 hour, so ~a repeat every two minutes. Is it normal and I will gradually get better or I have to do more sessions of easy locomotion work? And yes, I stopped my Beast swings and sold out for snatches.

2) in his last article Pavel recommends doing burpees in a way that allows you to

Has anyone tried it with snatches? Like 1 snatch every "N" seconds. Would it still have A+A benefits?

I’m starting back up with A+A snatches (4 reps, 32kg) and I’m on a 2:00 interval. When I last did A+A in fall 2018 with 28kg sets of 5 I could go every 1:10 or so for up to 60 repeats with the last sets feeling as strong and recovered as the first half-dozen repeats.

You’ll get there - progress isn’t overnight, but it’s measurable: more work (number of lifts) in a given time at a constant, moderate effort level.

 

[william bad butt]

I usually do 10 sets of 5 reps each arm (which I think is the same as 20 repeats of 5 reps). I can never remember what a "repeat" is . If I'm using the wrong terminology please correct me if I am wrong.

This takes me 30 minutes, MAX, with the 32kg bell, if I really take my time. Workout time is probably closer to 20 min.

Regards,

Eric

 

[Sean M]

I usually do 10 sets of 5 reps each arm (which I think is the same as 20 repeats of 5 reps). I can never remember what a "repeat" is . If I'm using the wrong terminology please correct me if I am wrong.

This takes me 30 minutes, MAX, with the 32kg bell, if I really take my time. Workout time is probably closer to 20 min.

Regards,

Eric

Repeat = set, set = repeat. I believe the term is just to emphasize that each set should be a repeat performance - no decline in power, technique, etc. In contrast to an incomplete interval set(s) where the last set(s) probably don't look as neat as the first few.

 

[LoneRider]

I've been doing couplets for my repeats, usually, a ballistic lift paired with a grind for some easy volume, e.g. 5 snatches @ 24KG with one arm and the military press for 1 rep/arm with a 32KG bell (it's my current 2RM) for that lift.

A medley I saw here that was fairly awesome:

One Arm Long Cycle @ 32KG x 2
Snatch @ 24KG x 5
2 KB LCCJ @ 24KG
Snatch @ 24KG

After re-reading Pavel's earlier works and Joey Yang's article on Consistency Trumps Intensity I've put to bed any concerns I had about changing things up (i.e. favoring one lift versus another, etc). As long as I'm doing basic ballistic moves (Snatches and Clean and Jerks (all types)), recovering aerobically and smartly layering in relatively easy volumes of grinds (mostly military presses, front squats, etc..) I figure this protocol works with a 'same but different' approach.

I do hope I'm reading that right.

 

[Bauer]

Is it normal and I will gradually get better or I have to do more sessions of easy locomotion work?

Keep in mind that mitochondria development can take up to two weeks, so progress might also be only visible over weeks, not days.

 

[WxHerk]

Keep in mind that mitochondria development can take up to two weeks, so progress might also be only visible over weeks, not days.

…and several weeks to month(s), not just weeks. This entire process takes a long, long time. Like one of Dan John's early mentors said, "little and often over the long haul." If one is fairly new to this I'd ask him/her to patiently log each session and then see the changes between now and 1 August. It won't be a straight line progression, but with only a session or three missed, there will for darn sure be some impressive progression!!