Alactic + Aerobic

Starlord

Level 2 Valued Member
Update. Yesterday I warmed up with TGU and worked up to 30kg bells for 5×5 (that is as high as the KB go to at work). I for the first time did KB snatches, starting with light weights to try to get to grips with the technique. Referring back to a YouTube video between sets I worked my way up to a 30kg bell and did 5 rep snatches per side and took my sweet time between sets. Had an issue with the bell hitting my forearms, I really need to work on consistently punching up as this seems to prevent this entirely.

Once I felt a bit more comfortable with the technique and the bell was hitting my forearm less I started my timer for 20mins. 5 reps a side and then rested until I caught my breath again before starting the next set.

To a bit of background information, since the gyms have been closed because of C19 I have been using gymnastic rings, 20kg weighted vest and 100kg swings on a loadable bell. So I was incredibly surprised by the DOMS I got this morning, especially in my grip. However these were not debilitating DOMS that left me feeling wiped out. Rather gentle DOMS that reminds me that I did some work but didn't destroy myself.

Will definitely be waving volume 4 times a week to track long term progress. I do feel I will need to invest in heavier bells but all reputable suppliers of equipment are sold out so until then I will have to slowly increase duration of each session.

Very interested to see the long term results of this training modality.
 

WxHerk

Level 7 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Had an issue with the bell hitting my forearms, I really need to work on consistently punching up as this seems to prevent this entirely.
Exactly!! I always demo that the bell is either at the bottom of the snatch or the top. Punching through, vs. "catching" it between the head and apex and pressing it out, prevents forearm pain. You know it the instant you feel it, like when you really smash a baseball or golf ball and don't feel anything but know that you killed it.

Sounds like a terrific session! I really like how you gently pushed the envelope. I predict you will like this over the long term.
 

Pete131083

Level 2 Valued Member
First of all, thanks to all of you but in particular @Al Ciampa @Harald Motz and @Anna C ! I’ve spent the last 3 days reading through the A+A thread on the StrongFirst forum and the tips you give are gold. I’m just setting out on my endurance journey from a Kettlebell perspective (I’m in the military and rowing is my sport) and wondered whether you might be able check my understanding of how to proceed, as I did have a couple of questions.
  • I should start by mastering Simple from S&S to build up sufficient strength to benefit from A+A
  • Can I include longer A+A type sessions with a lighter weight rather than just the 10 repeats of S&S to start to build endurance, or should I just stick to the plan?
  • When I’ve nailed Simple, I should then learn to snatch as this is the best movement for A+A
  • A+A sessions should be 3-4 per week and volume should wave from session to session and week to week, never being lower than 20 repeats and waving using the Delta 20 principle
  • Rest between repeats should be complete and ‘longer than you think’
  • I can supplement the A+A sessions with LSD (rowing / running is ideal)
  • I can supplement the A+A sessions with some strength but this is best done through low volume quality reps with 2-3 sessions per week
  • If I have a rowing meet, can you suggest what peaking looks like? From my reading on this forum it looks like introducing glycolitic sessions over 2-3 weeks before the meet - but how hard should I go in these sessions
Thanks once again, the stuff on this thread and the site more broadly is so helpful.

Oh and on a separate note, did @Al Ciampa finish the book in the end?

Cheers
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
First of all, thanks to all of you but in particular @Al Ciampa @Harald Motz and @Anna C ! I’ve spent the last 3 days reading through the A+A thread on the StrongFirst forum and the tips you give are gold. I’m just setting out on my endurance journey from a Kettlebell perspective (I’m in the military and rowing is my sport) and wondered whether you might be able check my understanding of how to proceed, as I did have a couple of questions.
  • I should start by mastering Simple from S&S to build up sufficient strength to benefit from A+A
  • Can I include longer A+A type sessions with a lighter weight rather than just the 10 repeats of S&S to start to build endurance, or should I just stick to the plan?
  • When I’ve nailed Simple, I should then learn to snatch as this is the best movement for A+A
  • A+A sessions should be 3-4 per week and volume should wave from session to session and week to week, never being lower than 20 repeats and waving using the Delta 20 principle
  • Rest between repeats should be complete and ‘longer than you think’
  • I can supplement the A+A sessions with LSD (rowing / running is ideal)
  • I can supplement the A+A sessions with some strength but this is best done through low volume quality reps with 2-3 sessions per week
  • If I have a rowing meet, can you suggest what peaking looks like? From my reading on this forum it looks like introducing glycolitic sessions over 2-3 weeks before the meet - but how hard should I go in these sessions
Thanks once again, the stuff on this thread and the site more broadly is so helpful.

Oh and on a separate note, did @Al Ciampa finish the book in the end?

Cheers
Thanks @Pete131083 ! You're a good student. Your statements all sound exactly correct, except I'd say on the 2nd point, just stick to the S&S plan until Simple. The only exception to that would be considering weekly volume -- S&S is 100 swings a day for 5-6 days/week ideally, so if you only get 3-4 sessions in for whatever reason, you can extend a few to greater volume than 100 swings if you're headed towards A+A.

On your last point, the peaking would look something like 5 or 6 hard 2-3 minute power intervals about 2-3x/week for a couple of weeks -- you could go with a typical rowing meet peaking, I would think. The nature of your event would help dictate the most effective strategy.

Al's book hasn't written itself yet ;) but you've probably seen his web site Be Well and Strong – A Healthy Mind in a Healthy Body. Also some good people to follow on Instagram: Senior SFG Tim Almond (lots of great posts about snatching, and he's working on an ebook), Megan Kelly, Harald Motz, Ken Bolyard, SF TL Brian Myers. I've probably left out some good ones but those are a good start... exemplary form, good exercise examples, and very insightful writing along with their posts - not just the exercise and form, but the energy expenditure, session management, overall approach, etc.
 

Pete131083

Level 2 Valued Member
@Anna C thanks once again for your detailed and helpful reply. I will look those guys up on Instagram. I think I’m pretty clear now on the way forward.

I am intrigued to see how this approach will complement the sport specific rowing training. I’ve not really tried the ‘train the qualities your sport requires’ topped off with sport-specific training approach before. I ended up burning out last year with a program heavy on rowing and probably almost exclusively in the middle and red zones.

I’ll keep you updated as to how I find it, but having done a bit of this type of work for almost a month now, I’m feeling fresh and strong pretty much all of the time. Revolutionary!
 

Deleted member 5559

Guest
You could use HR recovery as an indicator, and when you take longer than say 60/90s to get back down to 120bpm or so it might indicate it was time to stop the session.
I've consistently seen this work well for myself. If I'm putting enough power into it, it's about 2min. If I'm slacking or using too light of weight, the recovery happens faster so I would also suggest using a window with the lower side as an indicator you're working hard enough.

Perhaps it's best viewed as a percentage of recovered. Going from 160 down to 120 is different than 150 down to 120. Just thinking about it now, 20-30% recovered is probably a good starting place.
 

Pete131083

Level 2 Valued Member
Thanks @Pete131083 ! You're a good student. Your statements all sound exactly correct, except I'd say on the 2nd point, just stick to the S&S plan until Simple. The only exception to that would be considering weekly volume -- S&S is 100 swings a day for 5-6 days/week ideally, so if you only get 3-4 sessions in for whatever reason, you can extend a few to greater volume than 100 swings if you're headed towards A+A.

On your last point, the peaking would look something like 5 or 6 hard 2-3 minute power intervals about 2-3x/week for a couple of weeks -- you could go with a typical rowing meet peaking, I would think. The nature of your event would help dictate the most effective strategy.

Al's book hasn't written itself yet ;) but you've probably seen his web site Be Well and Strong – A Healthy Mind in a Healthy Body. Also some good people to follow on Instagram: Senior SFG Tim Almond (lots of great posts about snatching, and he's working on an ebook), Megan Kelly, Harald Motz, Ken Bolyard, SF TL Brian Myers. I've probably left out some good ones but those are a good start... exemplary form, good exercise examples, and very insightful writing along with their posts - not just the exercise and form, but the energy expenditure, session management, overall approach, etc.
@Anna C - would you mind please casting a critical eye over my last 2 sets of a Simple session with a 24kg. Would really appreciate any pointers as it’s impossible to get out to an actual accredited gym at the moment!

LH Set 9
RH Set 10

Thanks once again!
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Elite Certified Instructor
@Anna C - would you mind please casting a critical eye over my last 2 sets of a Simple session with a 24kg. Would really appreciate any pointers as it’s impossible to get out to an actual accredited gym at the moment!

LH Set 9
RH Set 10

Thanks once again!
Looks great to me, @Pete131083!

Stance and set-up looks good,
good use of legs and nice explosive upswing,
hinge position looks good,
power breath is effective,
your L-R alignment is very good,
shoulders are packed.

Some fine-tuning to play with:
1) gaze - towards the horizon, and I prefer keeping the eyes there throughout the swing, though some people prefer to look down on the downswing
2) Try swinging your non-working arm back at your side in the backswing and then up into the on guard position. Most people find that it helps provide more power. Example
3) delaying the hinge -- you do a pretty good job with this, but perhaps could keep the legs straight and locked for another microsecond before you break hips and knees to move quickly into the hinge. Then feel the loading in the hinge, as you do a the bottom of a jump. Feel the weight "coiling the spring" at the bottom of the hinge. (You'll feel this more as you go heavier.)
4) Watch the set-down at the end of the set -- stay in a good tight hinge position until the bell is parked -- don't let it get too far out in front of you with weight coming forward and loading the low back. (I mention that because people forget to look at these peripheral aspects of their technique, and they can really add up! Recently I realized I was doing a lot of bending over to change my weights between sets of barbell weightlifting... extra low back fatigue. I changed to use the legs more and that seems to have helped.)
 

Pete131083

Level 2 Valued Member
By way of an update, I have been training Simple for a month now in pursuit of sufficient strength to snatch 32kg explosively for the A+A training. Results have been way more marked than I thought possible.
  1. Total time has dropped 5 minutes despite now including 4 sets with a 32kg bell.
  2. HR during sleep has dropped from 52 to 44.
  3. I don’t feel burned out
Photo below shows progress for both swings and get ups. Blue line is total time, orange is total weight.

Thanks to those on this forum for the help, especially @Anna C.

AE5D66FA-B6C0-4A4E-B963-DA209C828A68.jpeg
 
Top Bottom