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Kettlebell All about the presses

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I would to understand the differences between the three presses. The clean and press, the push press, and the jerk. How do you know which to do and when to do it? The clean and press as far as I understand is more for strength. The push press is explosive. The jerk is more explosive yet.
1. Which builds more strength
2. Which is better suited for combat athletes (I'd say jerk as Pavel has a product about it)
3. Which is better suited for muscle
I'd say the push press is a hybrid between the press and jerk for most people
 
The time under tension for the clean and press is significantly higher than for the jerk. Does that make it the best for hypertrophy whereas the load is highest for jerk so the GPP benefits are higher when combined with the whole body movement.
 
Everyone's favorite answer: "It Depends"
It all has to do with how these exercises are used within the context of an overall program. To put it simply, the C&J recruits more of the body's muscle throughout the movement out of the 3 you noted. Because of this, you should be able to move more weight with the C&J than the press. The C&J works well as a minimalist, stand-alone exercise for overall body power, strength & conditioning (depending how you program it), and this is why it works so great within a fighter's program.

The press will isolate the work more to the upper body than the C&J. If I were concerned with mainly strength and/or hypertrophy, I would probably lean towards pairing presses with squats. You would program according to where you'd want to fall on the strength-hypertrophy continuum.

The push press is kind of an intermediate step to the C&J. It's definitely easier and less technical for most people to perform.
 
1. Which builds more strength
2. Which is better suited for combat athletes (I'd say jerk as Pavel has a product about it)
3. Which is better suited for muscle
It depends.

1. I believe a strict press is more geared toward strength, because the stress throughout seems to require a greater myofibril involvement. But there are definitely exceptions to this assumption based on technique and programming.

2. I believe the jerk is more suited for combat athletes, because of the large amount of muscle involved and the raised conditioning effect it offers because of the more complete muscle involvement throughout the body. But, I believe that another choice might be optimal depending on whether a particular focus is needed.

3. I believe the push press and strict press can be in competition for which is better for muscle hypertrophy, because I had an experience push pressing the 40kg bell while I was confident with strict pressing the 32kg for reps.
What I found was that I could induce much larger stressors upon my upper body by seeking a minimum amount of kipping in the push press. As I decreased the amount of push from my legs(dipping as little as an inch or two) I began to experience an incredible amount of work in the shoulder, which is unmatched by my strict press practice so far.
 
It depends.

1. I believe a strict press is more geared toward strength, because the stress throughout seems to require a greater myofibril involvement. But there are definitely exceptions to this assumption based on technique and programming.

2. I believe the jerk is more suited for combat athletes, because of the large amount of muscle involved and the raised conditioning effect it offers because of the more complete muscle involvement throughout the body. But, I believe that another choice might be optimal depending on whether a particular focus is needed.

3. I believe the push press and strict press can be in competition for which is better for muscle hypertrophy, because I had an experience push pressing the 40kg bell while I was confident with strict pressing the 32kg for reps.
What I found was that I could induce much larger stressors upon my upper body by seeking a minimum amount of kipping in the push press. As I decreased the amount of push from my legs(dipping as little as an inch or two) I began to experience an incredible amount of work in the shoulder, which is unmatched by my strict press practice so far.
Doesn't the push press incorporate pretty much the same amount of muscles and such as the jerk? Really the only difference is a second dip.
 
Doesn't the push press incorporate pretty much the same amount of muscles and such as the jerk? Really the only difference is a second dip.
I guess the observed use of flexibility in the thoracic region implies a slightly larger amount of muscles involved. But it is similar for sure.
 
Doesn't the push press incorporate pretty much the same amount of muscles and such as the jerk? Really the only difference is a second dip.
Due to the second dip, where you catch with the knees bent, there's a second "mini squat" in the jerk. It really hits the legs a lot harder than the push press.
 
So if one was to incorporate kettlebell front squats, the push press would likely suffice
 
The clean and press, the push press, and the jerk. H...
1. Which builds more strength

The Press

1) Maximum Strength

The Press is a movement that increased Maximum Strength when trained with low repetitions and long rest periods between sets.

2) Hypertrophy Training

The Press increase muscle mass when trained for low to moderate repetition for multiple sets that usually shorter rest period of 60 seconds.

In The Press the lower part or the movement, approximately the first third of the movement is overloaded.

The top part of the movement is under loaded.

The Push Press

This is more of a Power Movement.

Since momentum is initiated at the beginning of the movement, more of the top end of the movement is overloaded.

Push Presses are one of method in teaching a Jerk, since it is the first part.

The Jerk

This is a complete Power Body Movement.

Once the weight is Push Pressed up, a lifter need to quickly drop under the weight.

2. Which is better suited for combat athletes (

What Do Combat Athletes Need?

1) Do they need to be strong?

2) Do they need have power?

The Foundation of Power

The foundation of Power is built on Strength.

Beginners

With beginners, increasing Maximum Strength automatically increase Power.

Advance Athletes

With Power Athletes, strength need to be maintain Power, as well as increase it.

Thus, Conjugate Training for Advance Athletes is one of the most effective method.

That means combining Maximum Strength and Power Training in the same program.

Conjugate Training Poster Children

Olympic Lifter are the Poster Children for athletes who combine Maximum Strength with Power Training.
 
The Press

1) Maximum Strength

The Press is a movement that increased Maximum Strength when trained with low repetitions and long rest periods between sets.

2) Hypertrophy Training

The Press increase muscle mass when trained for low to moderate repetition for multiple sets that usually shorter rest period of 60 seconds.

In The Press the lower part or the movement, approximately the first third of the movement is overloaded.

The top part of the movement is under loaded.

The Push Press

This is more of a Power Movement.

Since momentum is initiated at the beginning of the movement, more of the top end of the movement is overloaded.

Push Presses are one of method in teaching a Jerk, since it is the first part.

The Jerk

This is a complete Power Body Movement.

Once the weight is Push Pressed up, a lifter need to quickly drop under the weight.



What Do Combat Athletes Need?

1) Do they need to be strong?

2) Do they need have power?

The Foundation of Power

The foundation of Power is built on Strength.

Beginners

With beginners, increasing Maximum Strength automatically increase Power.

Advance Athletes

With Power Athletes, strength need to be maintain Power, as well as increase it.

Thus, Conjugate Training for Advance Athletes is one of the most effective method.

That means combining Maximum Strength and Power Training in the same program.

Conjugate Training Poster Children

Olympic Lifter are the Poster Children for athletes who combine Maximum Strength with Power Training.
@Kenny Croxdale
How would you recommend to conjugate the press and LCCJ into one programme please?
 
According to Pavel the Jerk is more shoulder friendly.

Btw, he advises against practicing strict presses and jerks in the same session to prevent mixing them up. The groove is different. And Pavel recommends a different grip and rack: Thumb sided grip for jerks and pinky sided grip for presses. There are some more details in ROTK.
 
How would you recommend to conjugate the press and LCCJ into one programme please?

Acronyms

The problem with acronyms is it is hard to keep up with what they all mean.

One of my recommendation is when using acronyms is to also spell them out.

Doing so, enables otherd who don't know what the mean to know.

With that said, I had to look them up to determined the definition.

That is why my post traditionally list the acronyms, with a definition.

Thanks in advance for you and other who would do that.

LCCJ. Long Clean and Jerk Cycle

First let's break this down.

The length of a training cycle is related to...

Training Age

Training Age is how long an individual has been lifting; months or years.

Novice Lifers

These individuald adapt slowly. Thus, they can run a longer Periodizatoion Training Cycle with the same exercise, 8-12 weeks.

Advanced Lifters

This group adapts quickly to new exercise. That means they need to change their exercise or have shorter Periodization Training Cycle; about every 3 - 6 weeks.

A General Rule

Regardless of how long a Periodization Training Program is, once a lifter stalls out or starts losing ground, a new Periodization Training Program need to be implemented.

Conjugate Training

Dr Michael Zoudos' research determined one effective method is to specifically focus on one type of Strength Training, one day in the week.

Example

1) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

2) Wednesday: Power Training

3) Friday: Maximum Strength Training


Research shows the one type of strength training, enhances the other.

Basing A Clean and Jerk Cycle on Zourdos' Research

1) Hypertrophy Press Training

Low to moderate loads with high to moderate repetitions.

2) Strength Press Training

Heavy loads with low repetitions and long rest periods between sets.

3) Power Pressing

a) Traditional Strength Training Movements load of 48 to 62% of 1 Repetition Max.

Thus, if you are performing a Power Press, use loads in this range.

b) Push Press and/or Jerks

Explosive Reactive Movements that precede that movement with a Stretch Reflex (Reactive Movement), loads around 70-80% of 1 Repetition in the movement it optimal. That means performing a Push Press or Jerk with 70-80% of your 1 Repetition Max in those individual lift.

Strength, Power and Speed Training Repetitions

The same Repetition are used with all of these.

The difference is the Training Percentage is different.

Rest Periods Between Sets

The same Rest Period are taken in all three; 3 minutes or longer.
 
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Acronyms

The problem with acronyms is it is hard to keep up with what they all mean.

One of my recommendation is when using acronyms is to also spell them out.

Doing so, enables otherd who don't know what the mean to know.

With that said, I had to look them up to determined the definition.

That is why my post traditionally list the acronyms, with a definition.

Thanks in advance for you and other who would do that.

LCCJ. Long Clean and Jerk Cycle

First let's break this down.

The length of a training cycle is related to...

Training Age

Training Age is how long an individual has been lifting; months or years.

Novice Lifers

These individuald adapt slowly. Thus, they can run a longer Periodizatoion Training Cycle with the same exercise, 8-12 weeks.

Advanced Lifters

This group adapts quickly to new exercise. That means they need to change their exercise or have shorter Periodization Training Cycle; about every 3 - 6 weeks.

A General Rule

Regardless of how long a Periodization Training Program is, once a lifter stalls out or starts losing ground, a new Periodization Training Program need to be implemented.

Conjugate Training

Dr Michael Zoudos' research determined one effective method is to specifically focus on one type of Strength Training, one day in the week.

Example

1) Monday: Hypertrophy Training

2) Wednesday: Power Training

3) Friday: Maximum Strength Training


Research shows the one type of strength training, enhances the other.

Basing A Clean and Jerk Cycle on Zourdos' Research

1) Hypertrophy Press Training

Low to moderate loads with high to moderate repetitions.

2) Strength Press Training

Heavy loads with low repetitions and long rest periods between sets.

3) Power Pressing

a) Traditional Strength Training Movements load of 48 to 62% of 1 Repetition Max.

Thus, if you are performing a Power Press, use loads in this range.

b) Push Press and/or Jerks

Explosive Reactive Movements that precede that movement with a Stretch Reflex (Reactive Movement), loads around 70-80% of 1 Repetition in the movement it optimal. That means performing a Push Press or Jerk with 70-80% of your 1 Repetition Max in those individual lift.

Strength, Power and Speed Training Repetitions

The same Repetition are used with all of these.

The difference is the Training Percentage is different.

Rest Periods Between Sets

The same Rest Period are taken in all three; 3 minutes or longer.
The conjugate method isn’t that complicated from what I’ve read. Put simply it has a max strength day and power day, and sometimes a third hypertrophy day, yes?

However, it appears as though you read “long cycle clean and jerk” and thought “training cycle,” whereas the LCCJ is a kettlebell exercise usually performed in an endurance fashion. Clean, jerk, re-clean, jerk, repeat…., unless I’m mistaken there. If I misunderstood the meaning behind your post then my mistake.
 
it appears as though you read “long cycle clean and jerk” and thought “training cycle,”
That is part of the issue with not defining what the term is.

As an example, in another post HIIT has two definitions; which makes the conversation confusing.

Performing Power Movements as a means of Endurance Training is counterproductive.

It can increase Endurance but does so at the expense if a decrease in Power and ensures poor Technique is developed.

It amount to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail; wrong tool for the job.
 
So a three a week plan would be one day c+p, one day of pp, and one day of jerks?
 
That is part of the issue with not defining what the term is.

As an example, in another post HIIT has two definitions; which makes the conversation confusing.

Performing Power Movements as a means of Endurance Training is counterproductive.

It can increase Endurance but does so at the expense if a decrease in Power and ensures poor Technique is developed.

It amount to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail; wrong tool for the job.
That's interesting, thank you @Kenny Croxdale and @bluejeff .
I was completely confused by the term conjugate. It's mathematical use seems contrary to the grammatical and likewise dissimilar from the biological meaning.

As always, two lessons for the price of one, thank you @Kenny Croxdale . Apologies for the confusion, I had understood the following link to be an acceptable list of acronyms to help keep forum posts concise.


As @Bauer wrote, I was concerned about linking/connecting/whatevering the press and long cycle clean and jerk into one practice based on my reading of ROTK.

I had posed the question of how I could previously programme the two aforementioned exercises in a separate thread and was considering to train in two week blocks of each, as outlined in principle in ROTK. Perhaps I could alternate sessions instead in a similar way that the strength and power sessions are on different days.

For what it's worth, I am currently training LCCJ as a GPP strength exercise and am still trying to figure out how to get a third acronym in this sentence...
 
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