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Barbell Alternate vs Double Overhand Grip

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Bilal68

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To the expert deadlifters,

How necessary is the alternate grip when going heavy in the deadlift? Could one just continue with the double overhand grip?

Consider this double overhand grip with heavy weight (@ 4:50 min):



Thanks in advance for all your insights.

Bilal
 
@Bilal68, welcome to StrongFirst!

The lift you linked to is hook grip, not double overhead (or as it is sometimes called, 'clean' grip).

Stick with double overhand until you feel your grip is limiting what you can lift. At that point, switch to over/under. When you have some experience under your belt, go with lighter weights and learn the hook grip to see how you like it. Most people can learn to use it successfully but it's not everyone's first choice.

-S-
 
@pet', there's not a lot more to say on the subject. Double overhand to start, over/under when the weight gets heavy, hook grip as an alternative - that's about it. Personally, I do almost all my training with a double overhand grip because I want my grip to get stronger, too, not just my back and legs.

-S-
 
Many years of hook grip left me at a great grip disadvantage which I worked very hard to overcome. About 15 years of strictly Olympic Weightlifting, to me at the time no other training existed. I used hook grip on all pulls, even curls. If you want to get used to hook grip, to build up the hook grip callous, and condition the thumb I reccomend using hook grip for all pulls. It will hurt like hell at heavy weight, it still hurts me, but you get used to it. If you can hook grip hang and carry it will help you adapt, and I can hold on a lot longer, but it takes mental fortitude. Only tape the thumb if you have to, it will not help you adapt, but may help not missing training.

On an Olympic Bar I use double overhand to as heavy as possible then hookgrip. On an Axel I wil use Monkey grip, double overhand grip, then mixed grip in order from light to heavy. I do not like mixed grip but it helps you lift more weight on thick bar deadlifts, and cleans.
 
To Steve's point above, I have heard some state that a "deadlift" is with double overhand only and will scoff at over/under. Depends on why you deadlift in the first place I suppose as to which grip helps you get where you want to go.
 
I agree with @Steve Freides, stick with double overhand until it becomes the reason you can't lift heavier. One thing Doc Hartle mentioned at the SFL a while back was being sure to balance reps with the alternate grip in both positions. So do one set with left over / right under and the next set with left under / right over. Just to minimize any risk of creating an imbalance.

Best of luck!
 
Thank you for the kind words, @Bilal68. One other thought - if a person wans to see if grip is the limiting deadlift factor, simply lift greater than your 1RM through a restricted range of motion. E.g., my max is 364 lbs but I have lifted over 400 from pins in the rack - 450, I think. If you investigate StrongFirst's method, you'll come to understand why we believe so strongly in having a strong grip and strong abs - IMHO, it's much better to have your grip and abs be stronger than the rest of you rather than the other way around.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@Bilal68, welcome to StrongFirst!

The lift you linked to is hook grip, not double overhead (or as it is sometimes called, 'clean' grip).

Stick with double overhand until you feel your grip is limiting what you can lift. At that point, switch to over/under. When you have some experience under your belt, go with lighter weights and learn the hook grip to see how you like it. Most people can learn to use it successfully but it's not everyone's first choice.

-S-
Click to expand...
I agree with Steve about the progression, double overgrip then either hook or mixed. If you use a mix grip try to alternated both hands in the mixed position as it does create torque in the pull. Most are definitely stronger this way but you can develop imbalances if you don't switch it up.
the undergrip side tends to push the bar and the overgrip tends to push it.
Personally the safest way to DL imo is to stop at what your double overgrip can handle; this way your are limited to what your grip can hold, not your back.
hook grip is almost as strong as mixed but it's not for everyone. It hurts. A lot. :)
 
Steve Freides said:
Thank you for the kind words, @Bilal68. One other thought - if a person wans to see if grip is the limiting deadlift factor, simply lift greater than your 1RM through a restricted range of motion. E.g., my max is 364 lbs but I have lifted over 400 from pins in the rack - 450, I think. If you investigate StrongFirst's method, you'll come to understand why we believe so strongly in having a strong grip and strong abs - IMHO, it's much better to have your grip and abs be stronger than the rest of you rather than the other way around.

-S-
Click to expand...
This was confirming for me when you recommended it a while back. My rack pull is VERY close to my deadlift rm
 
@TravisDirks, then good to work on some kettlebell swings or otherwise strengthen your grip. How we wish to fail a deadlift is because, IMHO, our legs are too weak to lift the weight - we do not want our grip to fail, we do not want weak abs to put our lower backs at risk.

-S-
 
My double overhand thick bar deadlift is about 60%, of my conventional deadlift. When my grip on thick bars, at significantly less weight, starts to fail, the whole body and CNS breaks down just like a max Olympic bar deadlift. That really highlights to me the importance of grip, and its effect on the entire body. When your hands tell your brain, you are in danger, your subconscious puts the brakes on.

I can only speak from my experience but I hypothesize thick bar training has the same training effect as heavier weight, at lower weight, causing less overall stress on the body. No evidence, and I cannot quote a study, but I do not care about studies, just a theory of mine. For me anecdotal evidence is more influential than studies.
 
Steve Freides said:
How we wish to fail a deadlift is because, IMHO, our legs are too weak to lift the weight - we do not want our grip to fail, we do not want weak abs to put our lower backs at risk.
Click to expand...
Agreed Steve, I've been attempting to address this with deadlifts and rack pulls. I start with the Fat grips extreme, the switch to fatgrips, the to the bare bar at it get heavy. I've been meaning to put some swings back in. I finished my practice two days ago with swings and it felt great. Maybe I'll replace the grip focused rack pulls or alternate.

Geoff Chafe said:
When my grip on thick bars, at significantly less weight, starts to fail, the whole body and CNS breaks down just like a max Olympic bar deadlift.
Click to expand...
It pretty crazy how similar the breakdown can feel!
 
My original snatch test, 28/28 with the 24 kg with one hand switch never failed to pump the hell out of my forearms!
Nowadays ,one arm swings with bells from 40-52 kg do the same :)
 
Rif said:
My original snatch test, 28/28 with the 24 kg with one hand switch never failed to pump the hell out of my forearms!
Click to expand...
Mine was 26/26, and I took it super slow since there was no time restriction - I was chatting with people while resting in the overhead position, and Steve Maxwell was complaining to me to get on with it since I was keeping him from lunch.

Rif said:
Nowadays ,one arm swings with bells from 40-52 kg do the same :)
Click to expand...
I'm a ways away from that territory. I'll do 2-arm swings with 48 kg but 32 with one arm is about my limit.

-S-
 
I had trained for 25/25 and was one pound over the 165 lb limit and had to do 28/28 which I had never done. I did mine way too explosively and always over worked my grip. but it made it stronger :)

I'm working in passing the Sinister five minute swing test in March for my 60th birthday. I've done it with the 32, 36 , 40 and 44 kg bells. I remember when I started training for this and 3 reps with the 36 taxed my left hand grip :)
Progressions work
 
@Geoff Chafe agreed regarding grip - heard this before that grip gives out before structural integrity of joints and soft tissue does. Dont know how true it is but it's also said that your teeths breaking point is just below that of your cervical spine so you loose teeth before your neck breaks in frontal impacts
 
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