Other/Mixed Alternatives for A+A?

[Anna C]

It makes sense to me, because during swings or snatches you have the relaxation part. So during a set of 5, which takes ~10sec, you still get 4-5sec of rest during the float and/or lockout. With sprints you don't have that, they are 100% go all the time.

Yes I think that's a great point. Alactic energy can be supplied for 10-ish seconds, but not all the muscles are contracting all of the time in swings or snatches. In really hard sprints, you are closer to full-body muscle contraction.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Alactic energy can be supplied for 10-ish seconds, but not all the muscles are contracting all of the time in swings or snatches. In really hard sprints, you are closer to full-body muscle contraction.

That is true. I wonder if we necessarily need a "full body move" to do a A+A training. Indeed, would it be the same if we use 2 moves (for instance a version of the squat for X cycles, and a version of the push up for X cycles) during the training ? In this case, there's still a full body training.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Anna C]

I wonder if we necessarily need a "full body move" to do a A+A training. Indeed, would it be the same if we use 2 moves (for instance a version of the squat for X cycles, and a version of the push up for X cycles) during the training ? In this case, there's still a full body training.

I think a full-body, quick and powerful movement works best. Many types of squats are more of a grind -- not so good. Same thing with push-ups. And you have to create enough of a systemic demand for alactic energy to need replenishment, drawing on the aerobic system to supply that energy (ATP), so the more demand per repeat, the better.

As Al said here, "Load for the strength and motor skill returns; volume for the endurance/work capacity returns."

 

[Al Ciampa]

Al, you better write that book fast before we drive you crazy with questions... I think there are 3 active A+A threads at the moment

And I am feeling it ;]

Sanity check, @aciampa - care to weigh in on the A+A alternatives discussion?

Just skimming this thread, so I apologize if I'm off target... one aspect of alactic training is to deplete much CP as quick as possible. Slower lifts don't work as well with A+A because of this.

Someone mentioned sprinting... this is a fantastic activity to use, but use with caution. Sprinting will tear up your body quicker than almost anything else, unless you're an accomplished sprinter, or, you're not really sprinting. Use rolling starts at the least, and very slowly work up in volume and speed. I'd err on the side of taking a longer time to acclimate than a shorter one. YMMV.

 

[offwidth]

@aciampa
What would you think of (I hate to say it...) Burpees for this?

 

[the hansenator]

I tried a quick sprint up the hill at the local park and it took 10 seconds so that seems about right from what people have been posting.

Ok, so maybe it doesn't have to be A+A specifically but I have no explosive movements or higher intensity movements that I'm doing. I've read that as you get older, explosiveness is the first to go so that's why some trainers always include it in their older clients training. And who wants to be slow anyway?

So this might be a case of wanting everything at once but all summer I've been waiting to start both sprinting and rucking. I feel like I can start easing into it now so I'm hoping to find a way to fit both on my schedule. Maybe while including light bridges/goblet-squats/kb-deads as a warm up. I plan to focus on those over the winter and progress to swings so I'm trying to get a head start by grooving the movements a little bit.

 

[Snowman]

I can't say why, but all out sprinting for almost 10sec is not repeatable often, at least for me.
5sec on the other hand is something I could manage for 20 repeats right away.
It makes sense to me, because during swings or snatches you have the relaxation part. So during a set of 5, which takes ~10sec, you still get 4-5sec of rest during the float and/or lockout. With sprints you don't have that, they are 100% go all the time.

Yes I think that's a great point. Alactic energy can be supplied for 10-ish seconds, but not all the muscles are contracting all of the time in swings or snatches. In really hard sprints, you are closer to full-body muscle contraction.

Just to add my experience, I've been supplementing my A+A work with sprints for a few weeks now. The sprints are mostly just to add some extra A+A-ish volume while giving my hands a break. For my sprint days, I do 10 seconds or so of sprinting up a gradual incline, then rest a few minutes. I usually do this four times. That's it. As has already been pointed out, 10 seconds of maximal sprinting is a whole different animal than 10 seconds of snatches. I'll say up front that, if I had to do a "sprint only" program, I would drop the sprints to 5 seconds in length or so. And in regard to the "how many repeats?" question, I give myself one "slow run," then call it quits. In other words, just like @Kettlebelephant said, I stop as soon as I feel like I'm not moving as fast as that first sprint anymore. Again, with 10 second sprints, this only takes me four times.

So this might be a case of wanting everything at once but all summer I've been waiting to start both sprinting and rucking.

I don't think there's a problem with this. You would just be mixing A+A sprints with LSD work (I'm assuming), and it seems like most folks agree this is a good idea. If you're going to do a lot a sprints, pay attention to your lower legs (the same way to pay extra attention to your hands when doing lots of KB ballistics), and remember that hill sprints on grass or dirt are a lot easier on you than flat sprints on a sidewalk.

 

[the hansenator]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

I've had my share of problems over the last many years so I'm taking it slow. I've started walking short distances with just 15 pounds and I'll start with maybe three times up the hill. I suppose frequency and volume will be adjusted depending on how I handle it.

I guess the sprints don't really have to be "A+A" and I don't have to do them literally at 100% but I would like to start incorporating something with a bit of a strength/explosive element that gets my heart rate up a bit.

 

[pet']

Hello,

This morning, I tried a A+A session using a thick rubber band and deadlift (I used the "trap bar" version), which gives 90kg resistance at the top. I went for the following protocol:
cycle: 10" on, 40" off, 20 times
move: trap bar deadlift, done as much explosively as I could

Basically, I did 2 reps during the "on" time. So the total volume is 40 lifts.

I chose the DL because it is both a strength and full body move.

This session went pretty well. I did not enter in an uncomfort zone and HR remained constant. I was not tired during the rest of the day. I focused on quality move and power.

I think this weightlifting move is worth considering for this protocole.

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Hasbro]

I'm not big on machines but if you belong to a gym and have access to a rowing machine it'll get the job done nicely. Set the resistance right and pull explosively.