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Other/Mixed Anti-glycolityc porotocol for sprints and/or bike?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)

MaxGh

First Post
Hello guys,

I’ve been following the S&S protocol for about a year but suffered a wrist injury during kick boxing training. I won’t be able to do any lifting or contact training for at least 3 months and I am looking for alternative to keep up my athleticism.

In the Q&D, Pavel mentioned Sprint protocols that have an anti-glycolytic effect. Does anyone knows about such a protocol for sprints or (better yet) intervals on the bike (less arm movements)?

Thanks in advance!
 

conor78

Level 6 Valued Member
I remember someone here using Q and D series on the air bike. I have been following a high volume snatch program stage moment for BJJ and supplement with either an aerobic threshold session or a 10/20 session on the assault bike. On a Sunday it could be a long hike. It’s been pulling RHR in the right direction and feel good on the mats. Joel Jamieson a good reference point for this area.
 

Xene

Level 5 Valued Member
You can use the 044 - 5/4 protocol. Do sprints (run/air dyne) for 4 to 8 seconds per interval.

For example: sprint for 5 seconds, rest for 25 - repeat for a total of 4 rounds, rest until 4min or 5min and repeat.
 

Anna C

Level 9 Valued Member
Team Leader Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
Sinister
You can use the 044 - 5/4 protocol. Do sprints (run/air dyne) for 4 to 8 seconds per interval.

For example: sprint for 5 seconds, rest for 25 - repeat for a total of 4 rounds, rest until 4min or 5min and repeat.

SFG Kenneth Bolyard has been experimenting with that. You can follow him on Instagram @mountaineer_athletics
 

DannyHoj

Level 2 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I use the air bike twice per week. Tuesday I do 10sec sprints with 20sec rest x 20, Thursday I go 30sec on and 1:30 off x 10. The 30sec sprint probably puts me a bit past the AGT threshold but I’ve found adding these has helped my conditioning a lot.
 

Dan S

Level 4 Valued Member
I just got an assault bike on Craigs list the other day. I will have to give these a go. I know Craig Marker has talked about using hill sprints but I don’t see why this couldn’t be adjusted for an assault bike. Craig wrote a great article called HIIT vs HURT. It is a good read. HIIT versus HIRT - Breaking Muscle
 

Steve Freides

Staff
Senior Certified Instructor
Elite Certified Instructor
I do this periodically. My criterium for a sprint is to stop when I stop accelerating, typically between 15 and 25 steps. You can arrange the schedule like 033 or 044; if you're willing to forego following a proven template, you can do what I do. I do a sprint every minute for 4 minutes, then rest 5-6 minutes, then repeat, and then I'm done. It's how I take envelopes and small packages to the local post office and that's what dictated the schedule.

-S-
 
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ClimbStrong

Level 1 Valued Member
If you’re looking to keep athleticism up and still have quick recovery times have a go at REHIIT (Reduced exertion HIIT). Takes under 10mins a session and has equal benefits to a steady state 40min session.

Protocol would be: 3x a week
3min - low intensity warm up
20sec - 100% all out sprint
3min - low intensity recovery period
20sec - 100% all out sprint
2min - low intensity cool down

The way this works is during the sprint phases the body realises the need to release glycogen due to the high energy demands. This huge release of glycogen is the trigger that causes the adaptations in fitness.
The second sprint is needed to trick the body into thinking that another sprint may happen again in 3mins time. This keeps the metabolic benefits continuing for 24-48hrs post workout.
This all comes with the added benefit of very little lactic acid build up due to the huge glycogen dump not being used, meaning recovery times are quick.
 

Training for Life

Level 5 Valued Member
If you’re looking to keep athleticism up and still have quick recovery times have a go at REHIIT (Reduced exertion HIIT). Takes under 10mins a session and has equal benefits to a steady state 40min session.

Protocol would be: 3x a week
3min - low intensity warm up
20sec - 100% all out sprint
3min - low intensity recovery period
20sec - 100% all out sprint
2min - low intensity cool down

The way this works is during the sprint phases the body realises the need to release glycogen due to the high energy demands. This huge release of glycogen is the trigger that causes the adaptations in fitness.
The second sprint is needed to trick the body into thinking that another sprint may happen again in 3mins time. This keeps the metabolic benefits continuing for 24-48hrs post workout.
This all comes with the added benefit of very little lactic acid build up due to the huge glycogen dump not being used, meaning recovery times are quick.
This looks interesting. Is there somewhere where I can find more information on this?
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
REHIIT (Reduced exertion HIIT). Takes under 10mins a session
REHITT

This method was touched on in...

Post 4

Dr. Jamie Timmons HIIT Protocol


Timmons' Supra-Maximal Intensity Training involves three 20 second Sprint.

Each sprint is followed by with a 2 minute recovery period of let's say walking, riding a bike easy, etc.

There is a total of 3 Sprint with this method.

Supra-Maximal Intensity Training is an effective method of increasing anaerobic, as well as aerobic capacity.

The longer rest periods endure greater Power Output and development.

Supra-Maximal Intensity Interval Training

Supra-Maximal take up to 2 minute or longer rest intervals between sets.

During the sprint phases the body realises the need to release glycogen due to the high energy demands.

Not Clear

This is a little confusing. So, let's break it down.

In Sprints, ATP is the primary fuel source, rather than glycogen.

The Phosphagen Energy System

High Intensity Movements such as Speed Sprints, Power or Limit Strength are around 15 seconds or less (no greater than 30 seconds).

They primarily utilized the Phosphagen Energy System (ATP).

Restoration of ATP is takeS time to restore.

1) 30 Seconds of Rest restore approximately 50% of it.

2) 45 Seconds of Rest restores approximately 45% it.

3) 3 Minutes or longer of Rest restore right at 100% of it.

The less ATP Muscle Restoration, the less Speed, Power and Limits Strength produced.

The more ATP Muscle Restoration, the more Speed, Power and Limit Strength produced.

ATP Muscle Restoration

Once depleted, either glucose or ketones are used for ATP synthesis.

Glucose provide faster ATP Synthesis compared to Ketone Synthesis.

However, no one seem to know how much faster Glucose ATP is compared to Ketone ATP Synthesis.

With that said, Dr. Mike Israetel noted that rest period between Limit Strength Training Sets of 3 minutes or longer is enough for ATP Restoration for individual on a Low Carbohydrate or Ketogenic Diet.

Thus, in Phosphagen Energy Training, glucose's main role is ATP Muscle Restoration Synthesis.

The second sprint is needed to trick the body into thinking that another sprint may happen again in 3mins time. This keeps the metabolic benefits continuing for 24-48hrs post workout.

Another Point of Confusion

The increase in metabolic rate from High Intensity Interval Training is due to...

Excess Post Oxygen Consumption. EPOC


EPOC refers to the elevation in metabolism (rate that calories are burned) after an exercise session ends. The increased metabolism is linked to increased consumption of oxygen, which is required to help the body restore and return to its pre-exercise state.

Credit Card Analogy


Think of EPOC as over charging a credit card and having to pay it off over time with interest.

This all comes with the added benefit of very little lactic acid build up,,,meaning recovery times are quick.

Increased Lactate

Good point. However, it is the increase in Lactate, rather than Lactic Acid, that decrease Limit Strength, Power and Speed.

Thus, when rest periods are taken, Lactate is clear, ensuring greater Limit Strength, Power or Speed is produced.

Bodybuilding

Ironically, Lactate is produced with "The Pump" and produces "The Burn".

Increased Lactate in the muscle is one of the primary factors for the increases muscle mass.

Lactate triggers the downstream anabolic effect, increasing muscle mass.

As Arnold said, "You can't grow without the Burn."
 
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ClimbStrong

Level 1 Valued Member
REHITT

This method was touched on in...

Post 4

Dr. Jamie Timmons HIIT Protocol


Timmons' Supra-Maximal Intensity Training involves three 20 second Sprint.

Each sprint is followed by with a 2 minute recovery period of let's say walking, riding a bike easy, etc.

There is a total of 3 Sprint with this method.

Supra-Maximal Intensity Training is an effective method of increasing anaerobic, as well as aerobic capacity.

The longer rest periods endure greater Power Output and development.

Supra-Maximal Intensity Interval Training

Supra-Maximal take up to 2 minute or longer rest intervals between sets.



Not Clear

This is a little confusing. So, let's break it down.

In Sprints, ATP is the primary fuel source, rather than glycogen.

The Phosphagen Energy System

High Intensity Movements such as Speed Sprints, Power or Limit Strength are around 15 seconds or less (no greater than 30 seconds).

They primarily utilized the Phosphagen Energy System (ATP).

Restoration of ATP is takeS time to restore.

1) 30 Seconds of Rest restore approximately 50% of it.

2) 45 Seconds of Rest restores approximately 45% it.

3) 3 Minutes or longer of Rest restore right at 100% of it.

The less ATP Muscle Restoration, the less Speed, Power and Limits Strength produced.

The more ATP Muscle Restoration, the more Speed, Power and Limit Strength produced.

ATP Muscle Restoration

Once depleted, either glucose or ketones are used for ATP synthesis.

Glucose provide faster ATP Synthesis compared to Ketone Synthesis.

However, no one seem to know how much faster Glucose ATP is compared to Ketone ATP Synthesis.

With that said, Dr. Mike Israetel noted that rest period between Limit Strength Training Sets of 3 minutes or longer is enough for ATP Restoration for individual on a Low Carbohydrate or Ketogenic Diet.

Thus, in Phosphagen Energy Training, glucose's main role is ATP Muscle Restoration Synthesis.



Another Point of Confusion

The increase in metabolic rate from High Intensity Interval Training is due to...

Excess Post Oxygen Consumption. EPOC


EPOC refers to the elevation in metabolism (rate that calories are burned) after an exercise session ends. The increased metabolism is linked to increased consumption of oxygen, which is required to help the body restore and return to its pre-exercise state.

Credit Card Analogy


Think of EPOC as over charging a credit card and having to pay it off over time with interest.



Increased Lactate

Good point. However, it is the increase in Lactate, rather than Lactic Acid, that decrease Limit Strength, Power and Speed.

Thus, when rest periods are taken, Lactate is clear, ensuring greater Limit Strength, Power or Speed is produced.

Bodybuilding

Ironically, Lactate is produced with "The Pump" and produces "The Burn".

Increased Lactate in the muscle is one of the primary factors for the increases muscle mass.

Lactate triggers the downstream anabolic effect, increasing muscle mass.

As Arnold said, "You can't grow without the Burn."
You are confusing two different protocols here. Check out the research by Dr Niels Vollaard for clarification.
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
Check out the research by Dr Niels Vollaard for clarification.

Research by Vollaard

I wasn't able to locate the research paper.

If you could post it, I'd appreciate it.

I did find a couple of short interview with him on it.

Based on that it appears they are...

Similar Protocols

REHIT has some similarities to Dr Jami Timmons' HIT Method.

Timmons' HIT is about the same length of time, 10 minutes or less.

Timmons uses three Sprints while REHIT used two Sprints.

I doubt that one yield of a different outcome than the other.
 

ClimbStrong

Level 1 Valued Member
Yes, sorry, they are similar protocols. Vollaard does explain the effects it has on the body by primarily focusing on glycolysis and the subsequent signalling that results in adaptations. Does Timmons soley focus on adaptations relating to ATP?
 

Kenny Croxdale

Level 7 Valued Member
They are similar protocols. does explain the effects it has on the body by primarily focusing on glycolysis and the subsequent signalling that results in adaptations. Does Timmons soley focus on adaptations relating to ATP?

The Reason for the Similarity

I have a small library of Training Information.

In looking up something to post to you on it, I found one of the reasons for why Vollaard and Timmons is similar...

Extremely short duration high intensity interval training substantially improves insulin action in young healthy males - BMC Endocrine Disorders

The collaborative researchers on this article are...

John A Babraj†1, Niels BJ Vollaard†1, Cameron Keast1, Fergus M Guppy1, Greg Cottrell1 and James A Timmons*1,2
 
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ali

Level 6 Valued Member
Glucose provide faster ATP Synthesis compared to Ketone Synthesis.

However, no one seem to know how much faster Glucose ATP is compared to Ketone ATP Synthesis.

Not sure I follow...

What provides anaerobic ATP the quickest: glucose or ketone? Answer glucose. Correct.

Not really a comparison. Ketones just can't provide it anaerobically. Via mitochondrial respiration, yes but so does glucose.

So ketone ATP synthesis via mitochondria, yes? ie aerobic. In which case....

what's hanging about to use - ketones or glucose?

For the keto adapted, ketones but they are circulatory. Glucose on the other hand is on site but then in the presence of ketones glucose metabolism is impaired....

so in terms of how fast....the time differential between anaerobic and aerobic.

Anyway, what is a sprinter doing with ketones? They offer no benefit. None.

In Sprints, ATP is the primary fuel source, rather than glycogen.

ATP is the primary fuel source of everything....

I'm guessing here but are you referring to ATP from the phosphate system?

Every system works as a whole. The pcr system doesnt just fire on its own, everything is on. Sprinting has high energy costs and absolutely glycogen is absolutely involved.

I don't see the connection to ketones, as said...

metabolic flexibility.....well here it is. If you want to be metabolically flexible, sprinting is exactly the time you want to practice that - by being very flexible with glycolysis. For it to work as it should. To be efficient. For it to come on in an instant not to splutter and ^*#% but to work.

....so you don't really want or need ketones to be anywhere near you.

Of course, perfectly possible to do short sprints, to utilise and prime/train the phosphate system - but glycogen is absolutely on, unless keto adapted or you have a problem with glucose metabolism - in which case short sprints are the ticket. Other than that, absolutely zero advantage to ketone adaptation. A reminder - sprinting is not endurance.

There is this 'idea of 'keto sprints' - it was on the SF podcast a while back where former beat up endurance runner spoke of short sprinting as somehow being keto....because of the dominant PCr energy system and less involvement of glycolysis. For a keto person, using glucose is taboo. I really struggle with low carb grifting and binary party loyalty to a food belief. And a belief which then props up an entire business model. And that shouldn't seek to redefine physiology.

Personally, I don't care if people sprint fasted, starving, overweight, drunk, they chop off their big toes for weight loss management, tie their hands behind their back, sprint backwards - all of which puts you at a disadvantage and why would you do that??
So same argument for keto - it puts you at a disadvantage because because because the whole point of ketogenesis is to down regulate glucose management, to spare glucose. Sprinting is absolutely the one time you need that system to work and to work well. And it just won't as well with ketogenesis.

For people who have metabolic issues or health concerns, glucose impairment, diabetes and similar, looking for training methods to be healthy and to seek ways to continue training that would otherwise be a roadblock is a whole other thing. But that model shouldn't seek to redefine what sprinting is - or what the glycolytic pathway actually does. And the glycogen taps should be on at 0.01 second.

So yes even very short sprints devour glycogen and improve insulin sensitivity.....

As evidenced by the articles posted.
 
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