Off-Topic Any advice on how I can get a six-pack in the shortest time period possible?

[Daniel Vintila]

Depending on where you are right now that can be a very unrealistic goal and you need to be aware of it.
You also need to go on a caloric deficit, with a diet made by someone who is a doctor in nutrition and who can run some tests on you before that. You want a diet which you'll be able to hold it for a long time, not just a month or two, unless you prepare for some show.
Usually the quicker you lose weight the quicker you gain it back. If you suffer a dramatic weight loss of more than 1-2lbs per week, you are very likely to bounce back and gain even more weight.
Genetics play in important role in the way we look, as we all store fat differently.
Fasted cardio might not work due to the fact that you might feel even hungrier than training after a meal and you will end up eating way more calories than you should.
You can train as hard as you want and do all the type of abs that you want, if not paired with proper nutrition you will end up getting stronger and more endurance but not necessarily a visible 6 pack.
I get all my information from Greg Doucette by the way, as I am not a qualified nutritionist, and I find his information very valuable.
Anyway as I mentioned I am not a qualified doctor so feel free to disregard all that I have said.

 

[watchnerd]

You may also be interested in the work of Dr. Ted Naiman Protein to Energy ratio (P:E Diet). He maintains the following equation is extremely favorable to body composition:

P/E > 1.0
Protein/Energy >1.0

The following in grams:
Protein/Fat+Net Carbs >1.0

Example:
160 p/100 f + 40 c results in P:E = 1.14 and total calories 1,700. Granted depending on your weight, age, activity level may change your caloric needs. You can push the protein lever around and modulate the fat + net carbs for your energy requirements.

His contention is that Western society is biased towards energy toxicity (consuming more energy that is required) when supplying our protein needs. Once you get to the desired body comp, you can easy to ratio to ~1.0 and perhaps be lax on some days and take a break. He’s not super dogmatic and makes a compelling case.

Hmmm.

I can't get this equation to work for values that aren't either way above my protein intake or below my BMR.

BMR = 2000 calories
Protein intake = 1.6/kg body weight
Body weight = 100 kg

At 2K calories, I'm in a -20% cut, whereas maintenance is closer to 2500-2700, lean bulk is 2800-3000 (depending on training season).

 

[watchnerd]

Okay. So I'm not a professional when it comes to working out but, I have been trying it for years and I'm not getting the results I want where my stomach is concerned. I have done sit ups in the past but, now I have lower back pain and so now I'm sticking to doing planks which I do everyday. Whenever, I have the time, I'd do jogging and it does help with weight lose. However, I feel like I'm stuck with some sort of skinny fat physique and it would really like to get a six-pack. Does anyone know of any simple bodyweight exercises that I can do quietly in a small space that can help me to get a six-pack in a month or few weeks (preferably one week)?

Cut way back on the running (unless it's sprinting).

Do more resistance training -- and not just your abs.

Lots and lots of endurance running isn't conducive to building muscle.

 

[Ryan T]

Hmmm.

I can't get this equation to work for values that aren't either way above my protein intake or below my BMR.

BMR = 2000 calories
Protein intake = 1.6/kg body weight
Body weight = 100 kg

At 2K calories, I'm in a -20% cut, whereas maintenance is closer to 2500-2700, lean bulk is 2800-3000 (depending on training season).

You would need to up your protein. I lost fat and gained muscle at the same time (yes seriously, 7 site skin fold test take same day of the month under same conditions). I was 160 lbs and eating 225+ grams of protein per day. Up your protein, you can up the energy you consume with it.

Also, if you go into a caloric deficit and you keep your protein high, you will preserve your muscle better. You can go into a deficit at high protein for a while, reverse diet and come back to maintenance.

Listen, the bottom line… Exercise is not going to give you all the results you want, and whatever you do should be done in an incremental fashion that you can sustain in the long term.

No life hacks, no magic bullets. Putting in the time, planning and work and you will go beyond what you think you want to what you actually need.

EDIT: You should try changing your nutrient timing. Instead of fasting all day and eating garbage at night, have 3 meals a day where protein is the focus. You will be less likely to eat the garbage.

 

[watchnerd]

You would need to up your protein. I lost fat and gained muscle at the same time (yes seriously, 7 site skin fold test take same day of the month under same conditions). I was 160 lbs and eating 225+ grams of protein per day. Up your protein, you can up the energy you consume with it.

Also, if you go into a caloric deficit and you keep your protein high, you will preserve your muscle better. You can go into a deficit at high protein for a while, reverse diet and come back to maintenance.

Listen, the bottom line… Exercise is not going to give you all the results you want, and whatever you do should be done in an incremental fashion that you can sustain in the long term.

No life hacks, no magic bullets. Putting in the time, planning and work and you will go beyond what you think you want to what you actually need.

EDIT: You should try changing your nutrient timing. Instead of fasting all day and eating garbage at night, have 3 meals a day where protein is the focus. You will be less likely to eat the garbage.

I'm not sure who you're replying to with these comments.

Perhaps just general statements?

In my particular situation, I'm in my annual Olympic weightlifting competition prep cycle. Meet is in November.

I compete in the 102 kg / 224 lbs weight class. Typical training weight is 2-3 kg above weigh-in target, cut will be done in the final weeks before competition.

2000 calories is a 25% deficit for me. If I go deeper than a 30-35% deficit, my athletic performance on the competition lifts declines, which makes me less competitive and defeats the purpose of the training cycle.

I get DEXA scans every 3 months during competition prep. So far, lean body mass loss hasn't been an issue during competition prep on the 1.6 kg protein / kg body weight supported in the literature. Lean body mass on last test was 180 lbs / 82 kg.

So 160 gm protein on an average day. On heavy training days, sometimes I'll eat 200-220 gm protein, but that's just because I want a big steak or something.

Jacking up my protein to super high amounts just becomes another energy source (albeit a less efficient one) once I meet my protein needs for recovery and strength building.

 

[Ryan T]

I'm not sure who you're replying to with these comments.

Perhaps just general statements?

In my particular situation, I'm in my annual Olympic weightlifting competition prep cycle. Meet is in November.

I compete in the 102 kg / 224 lbs weight class. Typical training weight is 2-3 kg above weigh-in target, cut will be done in the final weeks before competition.

2000 calories is a 25% deficit for me. If I go deeper than a 30-35% deficit, my athletic performance on the competition lifts declines, which makes me less competitive and defeats the purpose of the training cycle.

I get DEXA scans every 3 months during competition prep. So far, lean body mass loss hasn't been an issue during competition prep on the 1.6 kg protein / kg body weight supported in the literature. Lean body mass on last test was 180 lbs / 82 kg.

So 160 gm protein on an average day. On heavy training days, sometimes I'll eat 200-220 gm protein, but that's just because I want a big steak or something.

Jacking up my protein to super high amounts just becomes another energy source (albeit a less efficient one) once I meet my protein needs for recovery and strength building.

Yep, my bad. I didn’t see that you weren’t the OP. When I saw the comment that the numbers didn’t work, my mind went to making the numbers work in the context of the original post with the desire to lose BF.

This advice, Dr. Naiman’s advice at least, is intended for the general public; it may not be as applicable for your situation and requirements.

 

[watchnerd]

This advice, Dr. Naiman’s advice at least, is intended for the general public; it may not be as applicable for your situation and requirements.

You raise a really good point.

If I had to make a crude nutrition flow chart, it would be something like:

General semi-sedentary public
|
|
GPP / Active & Fit individuals
|
|
Sport specificity


As an extreme example, is me vs my amateur triathlete neighbor. He's about 80% of my bodyweight, but his carb intake is about 6x-7x of mine because of his sport vs mine.

 

[offwidth]

You raise a really good point.

If I had to make a crude nutrition flow chart, it would be something like:

General semi-sedentary public
|
|
GPP / Active & Fit individuals
|
|
Sport specificity


As an extreme example, is me vs my amateur triathlete neighbor. He's about 80% of my bodyweight, but his carb intake is about 6x-7x of mine because of his sport vs mine.

Some endurance types (yes even tri-geeks) are actually pretty low carb in their day to day life and training. But on race day… all bets are off.
Train on fats, race on carbs.
I’m mostly an endurance guy, and yeah I probably pack away a lot of carbs, but there are a few times a year when I am training for something very specific and at those times I go pretty low carb in training.

 

[watchnerd]

Some endurance types (yes even tri-geeks) are actually pretty low carb in their day to day life and training. But on race day… all bets are off.
Train on fats, race on carbs.
I’m mostly an endurance guy, and yeah I probably pack away a lot of carbs, but there are a few times a year when I am training for something very specific and at those times I go pretty low carb in training.

It may also be a matter of "how high is high".

Carbs are fairly irrelevant to weightlifting, so while I don't go full keto, I'm "lowish" by normal standards, in the 50-100 gm/day range.

For me, the main benefits of low carb are better recovery due to less inflammation.

He told me that his regular training carb range is 600-700, which seems high to me, but I guess that's only 2x USDA on carbs.

I have no idea if that's low or high for an endurance athlete.

 

[offwidth]

It may also be a matter of "how high is high".

Carbs are fairly irrelevant to weightlifting, so while I don't go full keto, I'm "lowish" by normal standards, in the 50-100 gm/day range.

For me, the main benefits of low carb are better recovery due to less inflammation.

He told me that his regular training carb range is 600-700, which seems high to me, but I guess that's only 2x USDA on carbs.

I have no idea if that's low or high for an endurance athlete.

Yeah… and to be fair I don’t really know (by measurement) how high is high either. All I do is mostly go by feel.
For me the benefits I am looking for is fat adaptation as a fuel source.

 

[pet']

Hello,

I do IF, follow something very close to a mediterrean diet, and train first thing in the morning (both strength and endurance, on a daily basis). My 'abs' are almost not visible but I can still do more than 1/2bdw GU, dragon flags and stuff'... Height is 1.83m and weight 63kg... Skinny looking guy

Maybe there is some genetics in this, but sure diet has to be on the point...

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[watchnerd]

Height is 1.83m and weight 63kg... Skinny looking guy

Wow!

People come in such amazingly different shapes.

You're 3 cm taller than me, but my lean body mass (not even counting fat) is 18 kg higher than your total body weight.

You're probably much better at gymnastic moves than I am.

 

[pet']

Hello @watchnerd

Thanks ! But you certainly are way stronger

At some point I just have accepted the body I have. I do not count calorie or whatever. I just 'move with consistency' and check a few stuff here and there (RHR, blood pressure), and make sure some of my abilities are maintained or improved (endurance, weight lifting). Nothing really science based then !

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Eyetic]

Okay. So I'm not a professional when it comes to working out but, I have been trying it for years and I'm not getting the results I want where my stomach is concerned. I have done sit ups in the past but, now I have lower back pain and so now I'm sticking to doing planks which I do everyday. Whenever, I have the time, I'd do jogging and it does help with weight lose. However, I feel like I'm stuck with some sort of skinny fat physique and it would really like to get a six-pack. Does anyone know of any simple bodyweight exercises that I can do quietly in a small space that can help me to get a six-pack in a month or few weeks (preferably one week)?

I'm going to sound rude here but I belive its better if you just forget about it, I'm sorry but a six-pack in a month or few weeks is not attainable.

Having said that I'm always between 13% and 15% BF and I've never had a well defined six-pack, which you achieve with big abs muscles with normal to low BF% (<15% I guess) or with very low BF % if your muscles are not big enough.

Following pic illustrates a bit what I'm talking about.



I'd opt to keep training, understand that the six pack is just aesthetics and don't last forever (even bodybuilders aint that lean the whole year) and focus on real goals like getting stronger and healthier which will result on you having the body you actually deserve.

 

[watchnerd]

Hello @watchnerd

Thanks ! But you certainly are way stronger

Maybe at some barbell things, but certainly not a bodyweight.

I saw a podcast with @Geoff Neupert and he talked about how strength training is situational and how he once spent a lot of time getting a wrestler to be "barbell strong", only to find out it didn't translate well to wrestling.

I think strength is pretty specific.

 

[watchnerd]

Having said that I'm always between 13% and 15% BF and I've never had a well defined six-pack, which you achieve with big abs muscles with normal to low BF% (<15% I guess) or with very low BF % if your muscles are not big enough.

Here's the other thing about the six pack:

Overly beefed out rectus abdominis muscles, relative to the rest of the core muscles, can actually create problems.

For most sports, the rest of the core (TVA, spinal erectors, QL, glutes, etc.) are more important to performance for their trunk bracing power than the "abs".

You can also actually throw off your pelvic tilt, posture, and increase stress on the lower back if your abs are overly hypertonic compared to the rest of your core.

I do core work every day, but only about 20-25% of it is flexion / six pack work.

 

[North Coast Miller]

I'm going to sound rude here but I belive its better if you just forget about it, I'm sorry but a six-pack in a month or few weeks is not attainable.

Having said that I'm always between 13% and 15% BF and I've never had a well defined six-pack, which you achieve with big abs muscles with normal to low BF% (<15% I guess) or with very low BF % if your muscles are not big enough.

Following pic illustrates a bit what I'm talking about.

View attachment 14419

I'd opt to keep training, understand that the six pack is just aesthetics and don't last forever (even bodybuilders aint that lean the whole year) and focus on real goals like getting stronger and healthier which will result on you having the body you actually deserve.

I agree that 6pack isn't going to show up in a month. 3 months it might start to pop. It takes direct ab work to get there, and consistentcy.

I can maintain visible abs up to low 20% bf (at a guess, pic below not flexing), in fact as I lean out I have to work harder to get my abs to show with definition, a little fat seems to accent what's underneath - pretty sure its a by-product of having zipper abs and where the skin naturally creases.

They are def functional, even if trained using crunches, just have to tie them in with compound lifts and use what's there. For me, my back feels its best when my abs look their best, and that's advice I give anyone with lower back problems- train your abs.

To OP, abs are like any other muscle just harder to overload.

 

[Ryan T]

Beyond getting the 6-pack is maintaining it. It isn’t like once you get it, it just stays there.

As much as I enjoyed getting down to 9% BF, I’m not willing to maintain what I had to do to get there, which was basically weigh and measure everything and work for certain macro and total calorie targets according to the type of training I was doing at the time.

Since then I’ve eased up and probably more around 12% BF and the “4 pack” is there. I’ve learned how to have better eating and nutrition strategies for what I’m doing, which in the end is going to serve me better for the long haul. Sure, I can get back to a 6-pack in probably a couple months, but I’m not paid for my physique so why does it matter that much? My clothes fit fine and I’m comfortable in my skin as it where.

There’s nothing wrong with a little adipose tissue around the abdomen.

How to lose belly fat, according to science. – Precision Nutrition

www.precisionnutrition.com

 

[pet']

Hello,

@North Coast Miller is always at the top of his game !

I like to think the "abs" as a whole system:
- flexion with neutral spine (HLR)
- anti-rotation (Palloff press)
- anti-extension (plank, hollow rocks, dragon flags, etc...)
- anti-lateral flexion (side bends)

These are just examples.One could also consider McGill's Big Three, all forms of crawling / animal walks, etc... I like working my core in "3 dimensions". My personal core exercises (even if not optimal but match my schedule), which I do daily, are Dragon Flags, HLR, OAP and OAOLP. All are done with relatively low reps but are high intensity.

Crunches / curl ups may have bad reputation, but if properly done and paired with anti-extension (plank) they are great.

Hereafter is a routine I like, from Gabriel Varga (former Glory World Champion): In his YT channel, there are plenty of core work.

Overall, are there some exercises more prone to "core hypertrophy" ?

@watchnerd what's your core routine then ?

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Eyetic]

I agree that 6pack isn't going to show up in a month. 3 months it might start to pop. It takes direct ab work to get there, and consistentcy.

I can maintain visible abs up to low 20% bf (at a guess, pic below not flexing), in fact as I lean out I have to work harder to get my abs to show with definition, a little fat seems to accent what's underneath - pretty sure its a by-product of having zipper abs and where the skin naturally creases.

They are def functional, even if trained using crunches, just have to tie them in with compound lifts and use what's there. For me, my back feels its best when my abs look their best, and that's advice I give anyone with lower back problems- train your abs.

To OP, abs are like any other muscle just harder to overload.

you are just a beast. period. ahahahaha

edit. I want to be like you when I grow up