Kettlebell Any shorter than EMOM swings for most sessions?

[LejonBrames]

So I've begun doing swings Every Minute On the Minute, and I enjoy it. I also know you are not supposed to aim for the 'test standard' time(10x sets in 5 min) every sessions, would EMOM be the shortest time you would keep for most regular sessions? Would I assume if you're easily able to swing quicker than that, you're probably time to move up in size?

I'm still far away from this, but this question popped into my head, and I wanted some insight from the community about rest times for non-test sessions.

 

[Anna C]

So I've begun doing swings Every Minute On the Minute, and I enjoy it. I also know you are not supposed to aim for the 'test standard' time(10x sets in 5 min) every sessions, would EMOM be the shortest time you would keep for most regular sessions? Would I assume if you're easily able to swing quicker than that, you're probably time to move up in size?

Yes, but...

Daily S&S swings should be a hard fast effort (alactic) plus plenty of recovery (aerobic).

A 5-minute test will be less than adequate recovery for the alactic system so will likely bring in additional energy (glycolytic).

If someone does their swings in 5 minutes in daily practice and it's NOT easy, they are spending a lot of time training the glycolytic pathway. Fine for every once in a while (once a week or every 2 weeks), but not ideal for daily practice because this can be stressful and isn't the best way to meet the objectives of S&S swings. (Most people know this as it's been written about often, but bears repeating for newbies!)

If someone does their swings in 5 minutes in daily practice (or a 5-minute test) and it's REALLY easy, they are probably swinging too light of a bell. Not ideal because they are not challenging their strength, power, technique, or alactic energy pathway. So, yes, this could indicate it's time to move up in bell size.

I think S&S intends for you to move up in bell size when you can do 10 x 10 swings in 5 minutes without any loss in power and technique. IMO that will still be a fairly hard effort.

On your first question, yes, I think swings EMOM is usually about right for daily practice. If you can do a good hard set of 10 swings, and then feel fully recovered (breathing, heart rate, power restored) by the top of the next minute, it's probably a good size kettlebell. If you feel fully recovered way earlier than that, you either have VERY well-trained alactic and aerobic systems, or the load is not adequately challenging.

If you need longer than EMOM, that's fine too, as long as the swings are good.

That probably goes way beyond your question but I wrote this after 2 cups of coffee.

 

[Steve Freides]

@LejonBrames, try to go by feel for recovery, and take note of how long you need, e.g., you might start a clock, not look at it during, but look at the end to see how long the entire session took you. That'll give you an idea where you are.

I've enjoyed some swing sessions with a analog clock - starting a new swing session on the minute, but then starting the next session on the :55, and then on the :50, and so on. I didn't move up to a shorter rest period until I felt competent at the current one. You could mix and match, e.g., do OTM for most of your training sessions then once a week, try something shorter. You've got many, many options, but the best one is simply to go by feel and, over time, find your sessions shortening as you come to "own" a particular weight.

I've only had a sip of coffee so far today.

-S-

 

[Jim Lauerman]

Well, I've had two cups so I'll wade in here although I am just a newbie myself.

I have a bad habit of rushing through my training, especially swings. I use a pulse monitor and don't start my next set of swings until my heart rate has recovered to 10 beats below my MAF aerobic max. (That 's recovery to 102 for me - I'm really old).

In the early sets that's often less than a minute. In later sets in may be close to two minures. Whatever. Over time the time between sets and for the session comes down.

Honestly, I don't test. When the 10 sets gets too easy and the session time has dropped considerably, I'll start adding some sets with a heavier bell and watch for how my recovery goes.

Not "by the book" but the HRM has helped me a lot to avoid giving in to my impatience. I feel great and am progressing well. That's good enouh for me.

Jim

 

[Deleted member 316]

I've thought about emom just to keep training time down and consistent. I usually did one minute rests, but am strapped for time and need to keep things moving.

 

[jca17]

The ideal is to go by feel, and learn when your body is ready. When time is an issue though, its nice to know about how long your session will be, and when life is busy, knowing you spend exactly 10 minutes on your swings, rest, and say 15 minutes on your getups, its convenient for planning.
I remember a little bit back Al Ciampa said that instead of worrying about Maf stuff at the beginner/intermediate stage, just do EMOM. After a lot of study, I think he felt it wasn't worth the effort for most people, and that heart-rate was not a consistent enough proxy for when someone was ready, and that A&A swings was different enough from steady state running/walking that the formula wasn't as important.
For those that DID invest the time in it, I heard it was beneficial. So, go with what you have the time and desire to do. It's been fascinating following Anna's updates on heart rate monitoring

 

[Deleted member 5559]

I love EMOM (or OTM) for many things but mostly for keeping my session length on a schedule. I also find it easiest to keep things standardized to identify progress or regress. It makes it very easy to add one rep per set or one set per session while replicating as many variables as I can to gauge performance.

If you do have a HR monitor, use it to find how many reps you should perform each set so the remainder of the minute for your recovery gets you back to your start point. I find this useful for identifying the correct volume for varying weights and movements.

To the glycolytic points, the nonstop swings every so often I think will train that. Otherwise I have found S&S as a circuit with no rest (10L swings, 10R swings, 1L TGU, 1R TGU, repeat 4 more times) every so often (even once per week) trains that aspect well too and breaks things up a little.

 

[kiwipete]

I love EMOM (or OTM) for many things but mostly for keeping my session length on a schedule. I also find it easiest to keep things standardized to identify progress or regress. It makes it very easy to add one rep per set or one set per session while replicating as many variables as I can to gauge performance.

If you do have a HR monitor, use it to find how many reps you should perform each set so the remainder of the minute for your recovery gets you back to your start point. I find this useful for identifying the correct volume for varying weights and movements.

To the glycolytic points, the nonstop swings every so often I think will train that. Otherwise I have found S&S as a circuit with no rest (10L swings, 10R swings, 1L TGU, 1R TGU, repeat 4 more times) every so often (even once per week) trains that aspect well too and breaks things up a little.

Fully agree... when I was Crossfit training EMOM was absolutely excellent for finding the balance between technique and getting a good volume of practice in... it is just an excellent feedback tool for so many useful reasons.

I'm getting into S&S and EMOM has been my go-to format for managing fatigue, technique as well as fitting in with my limited training times in the morning