Other/Mixed Any Tips for Programming? (O-lifts + kettlebells)

[Wyanokie]

After a steady diet of barbell work for the past year, ala a Starting Strength-style program, I became interested in trying my hand at Olympic lifts again. I'm in the third week of review and am focusing only on snatching at this time, but C and J will come soon. I'm also interested in incorporating kettlebell practice in, since it's been so long and I miss the benefits of kettlebell work. Also, I've never done KB clean and press for more than a few weeks at a time so I'd like to incorporate that too. Figure this would be for the next 8 weeks while I'm continuing to refine technique on O-lifts.

I'll be practicing O-lifts 2x/week, what I was thinking was something like this:

Day 1:

O-lifts practice
Barbell squat (stay at 3 x 5)
Kettlebell swing (50-75 total reps)

Day 2:

KB clean and press, heavier -or- higher volume day
Rowing exercise
Bodyweight TGU/OS resets

Day 3:

O-lifts practice
KB clean and press, medium intensity day

Off days would include active rest like walking, backwards walking, light OS resets, light mobility work.

The concerns (maybe unfounded) that I have so far:

It's a lot of overhead work
It's mostly explosive work

I'd love to hear any tips, input, etc. on navigating this, and I'd be very grateful for any help offered!

 

[Mark Limbaga]

Looks good to me.

This is exactly how I programmed for my student when he wanted to review Oly lifts but still build strength in his main lifts

 

[John K]

The concerns (maybe unfounded) that I have so far:

It's a lot of overhead work
It's mostly explosive work

Do you have a previous history of shoulder or overhead issues? If you haven’t and are mostly concerned about the overall volume, ease into it versus jumping in full bore.

Mostly explosive… what’re your concerns exactly? When i break down what you have, O lifts don’t “count” as lifting when you’re learning IMO. When they get heavy they do. So we’re looking at maybe 3 explosive lifts (swing, clean, clean) and 4 not explosive lifts ( squat, press, row, press).

Personally I’d ditch the row. Between cleans and snatches and pull-ups I never saw much benefit to them. If you have a reason great. Maybe if you aren’t doing pull-ups that’s a reason.

 

[Wyanokie]

Looks good to me.

This is exactly how I programmed for my student when he wanted to review Oly lifts but still build strength in his main lifts

@Mark Limbaga Wow that's great to know. How did he make out? If you don't mind my asking, what was the set-rep scheme used for the KB clean and press? I was considering 3 or 4 sets of 5-ish reps for heavier load day and 3 sets of 8-ish reps for medium load day. I'm including '-ish' for autoregulating based on how I'm feeling!

Do you have a previous history of shoulder or overhead issues? If you haven’t and are mostly concerned about the overall volume, ease into it versus jumping in full bore.

Mostly explosive… what’re your concerns exactly? When i break down what you have, O lifts don’t “count” as lifting when you’re learning IMO. When they get heavy they do. So we’re looking at maybe 3 explosive lifts (swing, clean, clean) and 4 not explosive lifts ( squat, press, row, press).

Personally I’d ditch the row. Between cleans and snatches and pull-ups I never saw much benefit to them. If you have a reason great. Maybe if you aren’t doing pull-ups that’s a reason.

@John K I did have a shoulder impingement a few years ago. With lots of dead hangs, stretching and stabilizer work it has gone away, but the shoulder does throw in a little reminder now and then that it was once injured.

The concern about explosive was that I had tendonitis of the knee last year, but it has gone away completely, so I'm probably worried about nothing. In retrospect I overdid it last year, so that was my body's way of telling me to back off.

Regarding the row, I'll ditch them if you think it's not worth keeping. I did purposely stay away from pull-ups because I seem to remember someone on this forum saying that they added pullups to a C and P program and their elbows really didn't agree with it. Maybe assisted pull ups for greater reps might be a good compromise?

 

[Mark Limbaga]

We were following different blocks.. one was influenced by the rite of passage the other influenced by kettlebell strong..

 

[John K]

@Mark Limbaga Wow that's great to know. How did he make out? If you don't mind my asking, what was the set-rep scheme used for the KB clean and press? I was considering 3 or 4 sets of 5-ish reps for heavier load day and 3 sets of 8-ish reps for medium load day. I'm including '-ish' for autoregulating based on how I'm feeling!


@John K I did have a shoulder impingement a few years ago. With lots of dead hangs, stretching and stabilizer work it has gone away, but the shoulder does throw in a little reminder now and then that it was once injured.

The concern about explosive was that I had tendonitis of the knee last year, but it has gone away completely, so I'm probably worried about nothing. In retrospect I overdid it last year, so that was my body's way of telling me to back off.

Regarding the row, I'll ditch them if you think it's not worth keeping. I did purposely stay away from pull-ups because I seem to remember someone on this forum saying that they added pullups to a C and P program and their elbows really didn't agree with it. Maybe assisted pull ups for greater reps might be a good compromise?

It’s sounds like both the shoulder and the knee would be well served easing into the volume of your training. If they can handle the movements you want to do, then it is more about not doing too much too soon and building into it.

For pull-ups I’m not saying to do them instead of rows. Why did you want to do rows in the first place? A row never really helped build or support any of my lifts, and I found I was “strong enough” with rows even when I wasn’t doing them, so they usually get cut. For me, I could easily do some easy singles or doubles with a pause at the top and a dead hang at the bottom and it keeps my shoulder feeling good, it’s a nice stretch, and maintaining and building my pull-ups is important to me, so I usually do them - but not everyone has that desire, or those needs. If you are following your plan I don’t see a need to keep rows, but you might have a reason to keep them.

 

[watchnerd]

I do rows as part of my off-season hypertrophy training.

(They're also complementary to the actual rowing, as in on the water, I do in the off season)

Snatch grip barbell rows, especially, help with maintenance when I'm not snatching much.

Once I start competition prep, I ditch rows.

I will say that some weightlifting (Pendlay did, Catalayst and Sika do) coaches do see value in rows as accessory work, in part just to maintain shoulder health from all the overhead work.

I'd probably ditch swings before rows, as you already have barbell ballistics.

 

[Wyanokie]

@John K and @watchnerd sorry for the delay I was away from the computer for a few days. John my rationale for rows was that my last program included pull ups, I wanted to include the pull but in a different plane. Also, I've read a lot about rows being important for shoulder health, I'm 50 and do have a tendency to round the shoulders which I know can cascade into other issues if I'm not careful. If you feel I should do a different exercise I will happily replace them, as you have more experience than I do with programming.

Thanks again for everyone's input and if anyone else has suggestions I'd love to hear them.