Bodyweight Any YOGA advocates here?
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Bauer
Level 8 Valued Member
You are hoisting heavy weights, so lubricating the joints and soft tissues with low impact movements is really important. Yoga is one way, and a great one. Other great resources:
- Original Strength (OS) resets. They work the body and the nervous system in a miraculous way
- Super Joints and Relax into Stretch by Pavel
- Flexible Steel (kind of a mix of the three resources above)
- The Great Gama Protocol (GGP) by @Pavel Macek.
I don't know much about you, but I guess GGP or a routine from Super Joints could work well for you.
Sometimes they build health and mobility and sometimes they merely preserve it, which is important on its own.
Edit: There are a couple of great applications:
- Morning recharge: OS, SJ, GGP and Yoga
- Warmup and between sets: SJ and OS
- Cooldown or before bed: Yoga, GGP, RiS, and OS
- on its own, also on rest days: All the above.
Personally I like to include OS resets whereever I can.
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Yoga is great, but it won't cure what ails you unless you substitute yoga for some of what you're doing.
One doctor-lifter that I follow says that tendinitis is a load management problem. I tend to agree. Address the changes needed to the rest of your training program to bring that back to a reasonable load (weight and/or volume), and you will give your body a chance to recover from the stress you're providing. I think "the dose makes the poison" may apply...
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
For years, I do every single day, right after the training:
- Front split,
- Side split,
- Toe touch with straight legs (both while standing and sitting)
- Full squat
- Twist hold
- Full back bridge
- A few circles with the neck and shoulders + grabbing hands in the back (one from the top and one from the bottom)
- Lizzard crawl + duck walk
This never lasts more than a few minutes and have always served me well (after hikes, hard French boxing sessions, heavy duty, etc...)
Kind regards,
Pet'
For years, I do every single day, right after the training:
- Front split,
- Side split,
- Toe touch with straight legs (both while standing and sitting)
- Full squat
- Twist hold
- Full back bridge
- A few circles with the neck and shoulders + grabbing hands in the back (one from the top and one from the bottom)
- Lizzard crawl + duck walk
This never lasts more than a few minutes and have always served me well (after hikes, hard French boxing sessions, heavy duty, etc...)
Kind regards,
Pet'
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
If I'm a yogi, I'm a pretty bad one, but I have dedicated yoga days 3 days a week on my active recovery / cardio days.
Stylistically, these are super down tempo yin yoga sessions.
This is in addition to the quickie stretches (90-90, Brettzel, straddle) I do after weightlifting.
I also do a few rounds of sun salutations every morning while my coffee brews.
All of this lets me keep doing KB work and Olympic weightlifting 3 days a week.
Stylistically, these are super down tempo yin yoga sessions.
This is in addition to the quickie stretches (90-90, Brettzel, straddle) I do after weightlifting.
I also do a few rounds of sun salutations every morning while my coffee brews.
All of this lets me keep doing KB work and Olympic weightlifting 3 days a week.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
"Man Flow Yoga" just looks like rebranded ashtanga / vinyasa yoga to me, marketed to a particular male audience that isn't into the meditation / spiritual / ayurvedic side of yoga.
FWIW, "vinyasa" just means "flow".
There's nothing wrong with that, but it looks a lot like other athletic, physically focused styles like "Power Yoga", using well-known routines that have been around for decades.
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Steve W.
Level 8 Valued Member
You don't need yoga.
You need to train in a way that doesn't break you down and injure you.
To elaborate:
Injuries happen, especially in the heat of athletic competion, and often just by accident or bad luck. I despise the "it's your fault," blame-the-victim mentality just as much as the injury-as-badge-of-honor mentality.
But if you are chronically beating yourself up in TRAINING, it's worth doing a little self-assessment. To quote Allen Iverson, "Not a GAME -- we're talking about PRACTICE."
You don't have to go too deep; start by addressing the obvious.
Like if your head hurts, and you've been banging it into walls, maybe stop banging it into walls.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
+1
My Olympic weightlifting at home is practice. I don't go to the wall except in meets.
If I get injured in practice, I'm doing something wrong in my programming, being sloppy, or not listening to my body.
Yoga helps me recover faster and improves my ROM to hit positions on the lifts, but it doesn't prevent me from playing the fool with a barbell over my head.
Mo04
Level 6 Valued Member
Daily, I do a very slow Sun Salutation like in this video:
It only takes a few minutes and I always feel it ‘irons out stiffness’ I was unaware of.
Give the video a try - it’ll give you a taste of yoga - see how you feel afterwards.
I’m a beginner compared to many folks on this forum - so I may be wrong - my understanding is the first step in strength training is to work on ROM: to start any strength movement with a light weight - working on full range of motion. Once correct ROM has been established then heavier weights are used. My point is ROM has priority over kb/bb weight and therefore anything which improves it (such as yoga) will be of benefit.
It only takes a few minutes and I always feel it ‘irons out stiffness’ I was unaware of.
Give the video a try - it’ll give you a taste of yoga - see how you feel afterwards.
I’m a beginner compared to many folks on this forum - so I may be wrong - my understanding is the first step in strength training is to work on ROM: to start any strength movement with a light weight - working on full range of motion. Once correct ROM has been established then heavier weights are used. My point is ROM has priority over kb/bb weight and therefore anything which improves it (such as yoga) will be of benefit.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Really interesting.
I've never seen a long, 11 min version like that.
But he needs to pack his shoulders during urdhva hastasana.
I haven't ever seen anyone do a super slow one like that either, but I do it naturally sometimes as I get started... about half that slow, anyway. Exploring and loosening up the tight spots is one of the things yoga is so good for. Sometimes people get locked into doing poses only a certain way, sort of like doing a get-up perfectly every time, and miss that opportunity to find new range of motion and relaxation within the postures and transitions.
I started doing 5-10 sun salutations in the morning a couple of weeks ago and have been amazed at how much it improved my breathing. I think the combination of sitting at the computer all day working from home, and then heavy lifting for training, had started to get me fairly locked up through the torso muscles. Getting back to a little yoga was definitely something I needed.
I started doing 5-10 sun salutations in the morning a couple of weeks ago and have been amazed at how much it improved my breathing. I think the combination of sitting at the computer all day working from home, and then heavy lifting for training, had started to get me fairly locked up through the torso muscles. Getting back to a little yoga was definitely something I needed.
Kiacek
Level 8 Valued Member
@Benjamin Renaud is going to be writing up a post about this book soon. Check out his workout log for more details (you can get there by clicking the quote from his log above). I don't know if he is going to post his summary in the Logs or Other forum category, but I'm sure his log will mention it.
Benjamin Renaud
Level 8 Valued Member
I think @Anna C nailed it in her comment about the dose making the poison. From my experience with tendinopathy, and I've had quite a few, basically it comes down to going over the load tolerance of the tissues for a given amount of time. But quite a few factors can influence that load tolerance. For me load tolerance of the tendons has been more of an issue than actual lack of strength in the muscles.
I think stretching (or yoga) can help if it reduces the strain on a tendon from a tight muscle, but that is only if stretching doesn't actually make your issue worst. Which is quite easy to do if you aren't careful.
I'm not a physical therapist but only a very curious person that loves to understand things and the way I look at rehabbing a tendon issue is to:
Steven Low's article and book are invaluable reads if you want to educate yourself on the topic of tendinopathy.
Obviously there is a lot more to it than this, identifying whether the pain is acute, chronic. What stage the injury is in disrepair, reactive, degenerative and so forth.
In the small town where I live finding a good PT that is up to date on the latest research and understands SF principles and Kettlebells is not an easy task. That is one of the reasons I had to do so much research on my own.
It took me years (up to a few weeks ago) to realise that almost any program I put my hand on has too much volume for me. Finding the right dosage, especially when coming to training late in life can be quite a challenge. I usually either get tendon issues or not make any (obvious) strength gains. I may be making gains in load tolerance of my tissues without it adding up to more reps or bigger weights so it makes it that much harder to assess whether I'm doing enough to progress or not. And since it usually takes time for tendinopathies to manifest, it's also that much harder to know if I am doing just a bit too much.
I think stretching (or yoga) can help if it reduces the strain on a tendon from a tight muscle, but that is only if stretching doesn't actually make your issue worst. Which is quite easy to do if you aren't careful.
I'm not a physical therapist but only a very curious person that loves to understand things and the way I look at rehabbing a tendon issue is to:
- Decrease the strain put on a muscle by looking at synergist muscles to see if there are any weakness/tightness or activation issues and fixing those.
- Build up load tolerance in the affected tissue. This is where the money is. Lots of options here.
- Lightly stretch affected tissues to decrease strain on the tendon at rest and it might also help realign collagen fibers in the tendons. Does not seem to work with all tendinopathies. Manual therapy (I have had success with ART) would also serve a similar purpose.
Steven Low's article and book are invaluable reads if you want to educate yourself on the topic of tendinopathy.
Obviously there is a lot more to it than this, identifying whether the pain is acute, chronic. What stage the injury is in disrepair, reactive, degenerative and so forth.
In the small town where I live finding a good PT that is up to date on the latest research and understands SF principles and Kettlebells is not an easy task. That is one of the reasons I had to do so much research on my own.
Ben H
Level 6 Valued Member
Since lockdown a friend of mine who is a yoga teacher has been doing classes on Zoom, which I've been attending regularly having never really done it before. It is a very enjoyable and rewarding practice and a neat counterpart to heavier training but not necessarily compatible with the end-gaining mindset that comes from going into something looking for a cure.
So if the idea of doing yoga already appeals to you then I'm sure you'd get a lot out of it, but it's not a quick fix. You sound like you could do use more recovery, which yoga would be good for if, as Anna says, yoga is a substitute for what ails you. To paraphrase a Pavelism, yoga is just enough work for me to feel like I haven't let an "off day" turn into a "day off".
By the way I'm about the same age and also having some frustration with longstanding niggles. I thought both of these were good reads:
www.barbellmedicine.com
(particularly learning more about less mechanistic models of pain was a big comfort)
www.barbellmedicine.com
Also Paul Ingraham's Pain Science website is a treasure trove of info, especially his critically supportive assessment of trigger point therapy.
Alternatively, if you just fancy gaining some flexibility (which by no means is guaranteed to cure or prevent injuries) without the spiritual/cultural baggage of yoga, then in addition to the books mentioned above I also recommend Kurz's Stretching Scientifically. It covers very similar techniques to RIS but with a bit more scientific meat
So if the idea of doing yoga already appeals to you then I'm sure you'd get a lot out of it, but it's not a quick fix. You sound like you could do use more recovery, which yoga would be good for if, as Anna says, yoga is a substitute for what ails you. To paraphrase a Pavelism, yoga is just enough work for me to feel like I haven't let an "off day" turn into a "day off".
By the way I'm about the same age and also having some frustration with longstanding niggles. I thought both of these were good reads:
Pain in training: What do? | Barbell Medicine
So you’ve been training, but have started experiencing pain. This is an extremely common experience that we get asked about on a daily basis. Essentially,
www.barbellmedicine.com
(particularly learning more about less mechanistic models of pain was a big comfort)
Recovering From an Injury: Embrace the Process | Barbell Medicine
www.barbellmedicine.com
Also Paul Ingraham's Pain Science website is a treasure trove of info, especially his critically supportive assessment of trigger point therapy.
Alternatively, if you just fancy gaining some flexibility (which by no means is guaranteed to cure or prevent injuries) without the spiritual/cultural baggage of yoga, then in addition to the books mentioned above I also recommend Kurz's Stretching Scientifically. It covers very similar techniques to RIS but with a bit more scientific meat
vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
Yoga can be brilliant, if practiced with the correct mindset. What makes yoga different from calisthenics is intention, attitude, attention, and breathing. Without those things, the merely physical postures may or may not be effective for you. Something else to consider is tai chi and qigong. Tai chi is complex and a real undertaking, while qigong sets are simpler and shorter. Both are great at opening up restrictions in a gentle relaxing way. A nice complement to harder training.
njrick1
Level 5 Valued Member
This forum recommended doing sun salutations as a sort of minimalist yoga routine. I have been doing 4-8 of them every morning and love it. I view yoga as a meditation more than a mobility routine, but the latter is a nice side effect. Similar to how Strongfirst programs are not focused on body composition, but it is still a nice side effect!
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vegpedlr
Level 6 Valued Member
I have done in the past, and need to make a habit of again, doing three rounds each of three different sun salutations as a warm up and cool down for other training sessions. John Doiullard writes about this, along with the power of nose breathing in his book Body Mind Spirit. A worthwhile read for thoughts about a yogic/Ayurvedic approach to training.
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