Kettlebell Anyone doing only S&S program? Benefits over time?
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Adachi
Level 6 Valued Member
this is an excellent summary of the performance standards required for SFG 1 certification. including the Getup.
If you want the greatest amount of detail - in this movement, as StrongFirst would recommend...
The Simple and Sinister Video course has a stunningly excellent module on the Turkish Getup. It can be found here ...
StrongFirst: Training Center
strongfirst.skilltrain.com
The Segment teaching the Getup is the longest module of the course. And, I - having practiced S&S by the book for a year or so, found additional detail and value which built upon the book in video form. this depth of knowledge in the presentation is priceless to me, and I will continue to return to it over and over, as I turn back to Sinister in due time.
I was very excited to have learned a new (to me) cue (which is actually in the book S&S 2.0 but I was not careful enough to find it) that unlocked the 40kg Getup for me. I actually ran into that difficulty a long time ago and set aside my Sinister aspirations, and I'm glad that this course helped me find a way back in.
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The standards are posted on the website.
Sinister | StrongFirst
Pavel created a challenge in his Kettlebell Simple & Sinister book. This program involves 100 one-hand swings and 10 get-ups. The 10×10 swings must be completed in 5 minutes by performing 10 swings every 30 seconds, followed by 1 minute of rest and 10×1 get-ups performed in 10 minutes. The Task...
www.strongfirst.com
I would also watch the standards video on YouTube and check out the course above.
ILweare
Level 2 Valued Member
Not as safe to do it this way when the weight is significant. Stick to the roll to elbow, tall sit, leg sweep, half-kneeling windmill, windshield-wiper the leg, stand up, and reverse. I don’t have a video on hand, but look up any strongfirst-certified trainer on your social media platform of choice and you can probably find an example. Look for the black shirt with the logo.
Edit: the good people beat me to it.
I would check out this video by @Brett Jones -
He doesn't break it down step by step in this video, but you can see what an excellent execution looks like and he narrates the "steps" involved.
Dydo
Level 4 Valued Member
Thanks. Ok, but this clip you're showing comes pretty close to what the woman is doing in terms of what I had in mind, which is different from this video below. Look at how long this man holds in this stretched body position where he's holding onto the floor on just one foot and one hand. This is obviously not in the standard. And it's better that it's gone 
That is the high bridge which is useful and still done, but it is not part of the movement standard..Sure. Ok, but this clip you're showing comes pretty close to what the woman is doing in terms of what I had in mind, which is different from this video below. Look at how long this man holds in this stretched body position where he's holding onto the floor on just one foot and one hand. This is obviously not in the standard. And it's better that it's gone
Adachi
Level 6 Valued Member
especially with lighter bells, both moving more slowly and steadily and holding a given pose with a 5-10 second hold is well advised - in order to increase time under tension. Do swings faster than you might otherwise, and do getups slower than you might otherwise. a part of the Yin Yang balance to the routine.Sure. Ok, but this clip you're showing comes pretty close to what the woman is doing in terms of what I had in mind, which is different from this video below. Look at how long this man holds in this stretched body position where he's holding onto the floor on just one foot and one hand. This is obviously not in the standard. And it's better that it's gone
Dydo
Level 4 Valued Member
Thanks for putting my mind at ease
Yes, we teach the high bridge variant too, but the standard is the low sweep shown in the YouTube video. They are used for different purposes. Stick to the low sweep until you’re competent.
Looking at that other TGU video briefly, she would not be able to do that with anything even moderately heavy — and it’s unsafe in a number of ways (she’s not looking at the bell, she’s falling to the side to place her hand on the floor, she’s not connecting her shoulder, etc.)
There are lots of ways to pick something up off the floor, stand up, and get back down. They aren’t all going to be safe or optimal for training.
Looking at that other TGU video briefly, she would not be able to do that with anything even moderately heavy — and it’s unsafe in a number of ways (she’s not looking at the bell, she’s falling to the side to place her hand on the floor, she’s not connecting her shoulder, etc.)
There are lots of ways to pick something up off the floor, stand up, and get back down. They aren’t all going to be safe or optimal for training.
oukeith1
Level 5 Valued Member
@Dydo Simple is the above but timed: 5 minutes for for the one handed swings, every 30 seconds. One minute rest, then the getups on the minute. So about 16 minutes total.
I’m my mind, the timed aspect is a big piece of the challenge, and there is a big difference between timeless Simple and timed Simple in terms of fitness level you would need.
By the way, I love @ILweare ’s comments about the program. It is spot on. I loved it and just felt plain good on the program.
However, I definitely had the itch to add “more.” If you want to do something ostensibly bad a#@, or get ripped, or whatever, ROP might be a better challenge.
S&S is better for daily practice and well being. Also jives much better with other pursuits because it doesn’t take up all of your energy.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
Man. If you do a getup - ask yourself: "what is the purpose of this move?". Also, entertain yourself with the thought, that a getup is the way to lift something over your head with one hand. Something that you cannot press with one hand. From the ground. How would you do that? Without a ballistic move?
I'm not sure I'm following the criticism. Can you explain it further?
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
Sure. It is easier to do the getup if you think about why you are doing what you are doing. Thus - low sweep is a necessary movement, and a high bridge is not, if you are trying to lift a heavy weight for example.
If you summarize the getup, it's best described as
Integrity of alignment under load
Smooth and almost effortless transition from one step to the next
Integrity of alignment under load
Smooth and almost effortless transition from one step to the next
Ege
Level 6 Valued Member
I will share a benefit of S&S; that manifests itself even before starting to S&S.
If you really aim to learn all the moves with good form including warm up and cool down. It is a great mobility screening assessment on itself. I believe anyone that has proper form w S&S; have enough mobility to be healthy and fit for everyday life. You can’t probably do overhead squats, splits, back bridges etc, but you have enough mobility to stay pain free.
I know it sounds funny to some, but for some, mobility is an issue and I believe some of the injuries happens due to lack of mobilization and some other body parts to overcompensate.
This is of course due to nature of KB movements them selves, but S&S provides a great gateway to KB world. It is a great program to practice KB fundamentals.
This is on its own an underrated “feature” of S&S. If you stay in the world of dumbbells, basic calisthenics (Not SF style but some other schools) , and machines, you don’t need that much of a mobility to have an acceptable form.
If you really aim to learn all the moves with good form including warm up and cool down. It is a great mobility screening assessment on itself. I believe anyone that has proper form w S&S; have enough mobility to be healthy and fit for everyday life. You can’t probably do overhead squats, splits, back bridges etc, but you have enough mobility to stay pain free.
I know it sounds funny to some, but for some, mobility is an issue and I believe some of the injuries happens due to lack of mobilization and some other body parts to overcompensate.
This is of course due to nature of KB movements them selves, but S&S provides a great gateway to KB world. It is a great program to practice KB fundamentals.
This is on its own an underrated “feature” of S&S. If you stay in the world of dumbbells, basic calisthenics (Not SF style but some other schools) , and machines, you don’t need that much of a mobility to have an acceptable form.
Pavel.Kosenkov
Level 5 Valued Member
I will share about the TGU. In 2 months I have recovered from a year-long shoulder injury. I could not prevent rotation while hanging with one arm from the pullup bar, and I could not do one arm pushup on the injured side. Physiotherapy did not help me much. Get-ups did.
marvinthemartian
Level 5 Valued Member
I followed S&S for over 2 years until I could do Timed Simple pretty much every day. Even though I never liked it all that much it fixed a lot of the problems I had, it pretty much did what the book said it would do and eventually it got me to where I wanted to be.
Benefits: You get a little bit of everything. Some strength, some endurance, some flexibility, some physical therapy, some improved coordination and balance. If you sit a lot like I do it undoes a lot of the damage caused by that. In my experience reaching Timed Simple (at least for men) fits Pavel description from the book pretty well: you will be fit enough to do most physical activities and recreational sports reasonably well. Pretty good for something you can do at home with little space and equipment.
Drawbacks: 2 exercises almost much every day at an intensity and volume that allows you to train every day was boring to me. And even though they train everything a little bit you will of course improve the most at swinging a KB for 100 reps and doing TGUs - things that have limited relevance in my daily life. Plus the time commitment was a bit too much for me to make the daily training feel like "brushing my teeth". How long it takes you depends on your level of fitness and how long you want to spend with the warmup and stretches. But my couch potato self took 10 minutes to do the warmup, 8-10 minutes for the swings, 10-15 minutes for the TGUs and another 10+ minutes for the 2 stretches. ~40 minutes 5-6 times a week isn't nothing as far as fitness programs go.
Benefits: You get a little bit of everything. Some strength, some endurance, some flexibility, some physical therapy, some improved coordination and balance. If you sit a lot like I do it undoes a lot of the damage caused by that. In my experience reaching Timed Simple (at least for men) fits Pavel description from the book pretty well: you will be fit enough to do most physical activities and recreational sports reasonably well. Pretty good for something you can do at home with little space and equipment.
Drawbacks: 2 exercises almost much every day at an intensity and volume that allows you to train every day was boring to me. And even though they train everything a little bit you will of course improve the most at swinging a KB for 100 reps and doing TGUs - things that have limited relevance in my daily life. Plus the time commitment was a bit too much for me to make the daily training feel like "brushing my teeth". How long it takes you depends on your level of fitness and how long you want to spend with the warmup and stretches. But my couch potato self took 10 minutes to do the warmup, 8-10 minutes for the swings, 10-15 minutes for the TGUs and another 10+ minutes for the 2 stretches. ~40 minutes 5-6 times a week isn't nothing as far as fitness programs go.
pet'
Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,
I agree with @marvinthemartian
I'd also say that at some point there is some sort of "diminishing returns". If one is able to do it day in day out without any trouble, then one has to either going heavier (but it would require more "programming") or changing the routine (doing RoP or whatever for instance).
S&S is a great program to get a baseline of strength and conditioning, but it will not necessarily improve or maintain everything. For instance, results on pressing strength increase or maintenance are not unanimous: some folks claim it increased their press, some other do not.
Kind regards,
Pet'
I agree with @marvinthemartian
I'd also say that at some point there is some sort of "diminishing returns". If one is able to do it day in day out without any trouble, then one has to either going heavier (but it would require more "programming") or changing the routine (doing RoP or whatever for instance).
S&S is a great program to get a baseline of strength and conditioning, but it will not necessarily improve or maintain everything. For instance, results on pressing strength increase or maintenance are not unanimous: some folks claim it increased their press, some other do not.
Kind regards,
Pet'
CMat
Level 3 Valued Member
Hello
I am currently working on only S+S and picked up the new video program also. I am trying to do at least three S+S sessions a week depending on my schedule and using a HR monitor to pace myself. I look forward to seeing what changes occur over the coming months.
Cheers
I am currently working on only S+S and picked up the new video program also. I am trying to do at least three S+S sessions a week depending on my schedule and using a HR monitor to pace myself. I look forward to seeing what changes occur over the coming months.
Cheers