100%, cast iron with paint.
Kettlebell Anyone else prefer training with Competition Kettlebells ?
- Thread starter Opiaswing
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Yeah, the horns are too flared out, rather than vertical, to be a comp bell.
Opiaswing
Level 5 Valued Member
You sound like you've taken this whole thread as a slight against strongfirst products and your perspective since has came across as 'you might enjoy something other than our product but you should still buy our product because they will result in more progress.'
We both know training with a cast iron bell vs training with a GS bell of the same weight would not yeild better results given all other factors remained the same. Better yet, the person who enjoys their training more is way more likely to be consistent in the long run and thus progress further over time.
Besides, i'm sure if Strongfirst sold competition style kettlebells your approach to this thread would have been very different
@Opiaswing, I'll try one more time to see if I can make myself understood by you.
A brief story from my musical education: we often had the assignment, in my college music theory class, of completing a partially-written short piece of music. In this case, we were given a bass line and asked to supply the upper three voices. (4-part harmony is one of main methods by which music theory can be taught.) Iin the small school with small class sizes I went to, we took turns putting our homework on the blackboard, then the class and the teacher would offer their feedback as to what was good and what wasn't so good about what we'd created. And one day, after I'd put my homework on the blackboard, the teacher looked at it and his first comment was, "You missed it." I'll leave out the middle of the story as it would only make sense to musicians, but at the end of class, I went up to him and said, "Is your way really better than mine?" and he said, "maybe and maybe not, but the point of being in my class is to learn to do what I'm teaching you. When you're done, you can do what you like, but for now, you should try to understand why I'm asking you to do it the way I did."
There's a lesson about learning a system there that I believe in - you may not, that's up to you. When it comes to cast iron kettlebells in general and StrongFirst kettlebells in particular, I wasn't involved in the decision making about any of it, but I trust the people who created the system and who created the design of the kettlebells. As to whether GS or iron kettlebells, I'm content to say, as I said above, the same weight won't necessarily give the same results, and I've explained why in this post and in earlier ones. But as to whether StrongFirst kettlebells or someone else's cast iron bells, I know the effort that went into conceiving StrongFirst bells in all the details necessary for their manufacture, and whether those difference are large or small isn't something I choose to concern myself with. When I use them, they're one less thing I concern myself with because I know they're the best tool for the job I'm doing. The alternatives may be different a little or a lot, but telling you which of those is true is above my level of knowledge and expertise.
There's an expression: There's no zealot like a convert. I'm also living proof of that, too, and if I rub you the wrong way, I apologize, but I do what I do here for reasons that I've tried to explain and I'm afraid I can't explain them any more or any better than I have in previous posts and in this one. If you think I'm all about StrongFirst making money from selling kettlebells, you don't know me at all, but hey, if that's how you feel, that's how you feel, I guess. All I can tell you is that, as someone whose life from age 16 on has been about teaching to help others improve, I'm honored and proud to be a part of StrongFirst, and very happy to continue to recommend StrongFirst programs, books, and yes, kettlebells.
Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
-S-
No, I don't think any of those things at all. I look at StrongFirst as a system, just like I looked at Tae Kwon Do as a system when I was a student of it. You might not share my point of view on that subject, or you might simply not be interested in the StrongFirst "approach" but rather in picking out the pieces you like, and that's fine, but that's your perspective and not mine. And when I say, "that's fine," I mean it - you may do whatever you wish with whatever you find appealing to you offered by StrongFirst, and no one is telling you that you must do otherwise, but we are nonetheless telling you what you _could_ do otherwise, and trying to explain why we're suggesting what we're suggesting. We don't say you're wrong, but we also have great confidence in ourselves and our approach and that they have much to offer people. The whole of StrongFirst is greater than the sum of its parts, by which I mean that by embracing the system we teach, you'll learn more and benefit more than by just doing some/all of the parts.
The handle on my 32 kg bell is thicker and therefore more work/challenge for my grip. Learning to use a bell with a thicker handle of the same weight will find me stronger.
A brief story from my musical education: we often had the assignment, in my college music theory class, of completing a partially-written short piece of music. In this case, we were given a bass line and asked to supply the upper three voices. (4-part harmony is one of main methods by which music theory can be taught.) Iin the small school with small class sizes I went to, we took turns putting our homework on the blackboard, then the class and the teacher would offer their feedback as to what was good and what wasn't so good about what we'd created. And one day, after I'd put my homework on the blackboard, the teacher looked at it and his first comment was, "You missed it." I'll leave out the middle of the story as it would only make sense to musicians, but at the end of class, I went up to him and said, "Is your way really better than mine?" and he said, "maybe and maybe not, but the point of being in my class is to learn to do what I'm teaching you. When you're done, you can do what you like, but for now, you should try to understand why I'm asking you to do it the way I did."
There's a lesson about learning a system there that I believe in - you may not, that's up to you. When it comes to cast iron kettlebells in general and StrongFirst kettlebells in particular, I wasn't involved in the decision making about any of it, but I trust the people who created the system and who created the design of the kettlebells. As to whether GS or iron kettlebells, I'm content to say, as I said above, the same weight won't necessarily give the same results, and I've explained why in this post and in earlier ones. But as to whether StrongFirst kettlebells or someone else's cast iron bells, I know the effort that went into conceiving StrongFirst bells in all the details necessary for their manufacture, and whether those difference are large or small isn't something I choose to concern myself with. When I use them, they're one less thing I concern myself with because I know they're the best tool for the job I'm doing. The alternatives may be different a little or a lot, but telling you which of those is true is above my level of knowledge and expertise.
Again, this is something I've touched on before so I'm repeating myself, but we are here for those interested, and your adherence to a program is on you. And if you decide that using a cast iron kettlebell isn't for you and you manage to complete Simple or Sinister or the Rite of Passage or your SFG certification by training with GS bells, more power to you - go for it. That still won't be what I'll recommend, but it'll still be great. I've owned GS bells, and I completed a GS coaching certification, so I'm familiar with the differences. When I trained GS, I used GS bells.
And here, in little print at the bottom of your post, you're impugning my character, which I don't care for, thank you. I am living proof of the power of our system, someone who was very close to being in a wheelchair 25 years ago, and who has since achieved beyond any things I could have imagined before I started training the StrongFirst way.Besides, i'm sure if Strongfirst sold competition style kettlebells your approach to this thread would have been very different
There's an expression: There's no zealot like a convert. I'm also living proof of that, too, and if I rub you the wrong way, I apologize, but I do what I do here for reasons that I've tried to explain and I'm afraid I can't explain them any more or any better than I have in previous posts and in this one. If you think I'm all about StrongFirst making money from selling kettlebells, you don't know me at all, but hey, if that's how you feel, that's how you feel, I guess. All I can tell you is that, as someone whose life from age 16 on has been about teaching to help others improve, I'm honored and proud to be a part of StrongFirst, and very happy to continue to recommend StrongFirst programs, books, and yes, kettlebells.
Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.
-S-
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
Only a man secure in his masculinity would admit this. I, too, like the colors.
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
This has become the thread for shorter guys. I'm 5'8" and agree that cleaning and strict pressing is not a problem. However, I seem to need to close up my stance when I jerk, probably from doing the jerk with a barbell for many years. This is why I wouldn't compete in long-cycle - having to widen and close my stance between every clean and jerk would be inefficient.
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
I have no doubt that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant experienced times in their lives when tired or frustrated with playing basketball or just didn't feel like practicing. This likely carried over into their professional careers. But that's just it - they were professionals who made millions being good at basketball. Pay me $1 million per year to be a kettlebell athlete and I'll use whatever type of kettlebell I need to succeed, and I'll force myself to train even when I'm not 100%. As yet, no one has offered me this type of salary. I have my regular job where I have days that I don't enjoy 100%. So yeah, I want to enjoy my training. There really is such a thing as a "best" training plan - it's the one you'll keep doing consistently. That usually means there is some enjoyment to it.
I like comp bells because I am interested in competing in girevoy sport. I also like the way they feel. And yes - I like the colors!
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
I've read posts in the comp vs. cast iron debate where people wrote that they like the thicker handle of the cast iron KBs because it works their grip. That's like saying I only deadlift with a thick bar because it works my grip. The deadlift builds total body strength and anyone who limits who much they can deadlift based on their grip strength is seriously missing out on all of the benefits of the deadlift. Same with KBs - grip should not be the limiting factor. Having said that, I still have 2 cast iron KBs with thick grips that I use as part of my training just like I have a thick bar for deadlifts. There is a time and a place for all of these tools.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I'm taller than that (5'11"), but I still want to chance my stance.
So I solve it by not swing cleaning.
If you clean straight up, you can use a jerk stance.
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
Can you long-cycle like this? That might be awkward.
Boris Bachmann
Level 8 Valued Member
Or if there is not enough clearance it can be hell on the wrists, essentially making them unusuable for much more than swings and some traditional dumbbell exercises. I haven't seen either of these issues as much over the past 10 years or so, but yeah...
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Oh Sweet Christmas, no.
I've tried doing it continuously and using 2 x 32, I'm gassed out by 3 min.
Maybe if I was using 2 x 16, I could make it to 5 ?
And by the end it is *ugly*.
Bad ugly. Like Crossfit burpees bad.
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
LOL. Steve can be dogmatic. That's not always a bad thing. Most of Steve's post are informative. His "we don't care bout your enjoyment statement" came off as slightly abrasive, but it was made in jest and I made my disagreement known. As I previously wrote, pay me money to be a kettlebell athlete, heck I'd settle for $100,000 per year, and I also won't care about my enjoyment.
MikeTheBear
Level 6 Valued Member
@Kev and @watchnerd Are we like the same person? I also like watches. Unfortunately, ever since I started using a laptop I stopped wearing them because the band would rub against that built-in mouse pad and mess everything up. I always have my cell phone so I can just look at it for the time so I've never found the need to go back to wearing them. I do miss wearing them.
I wear my AMAZFIT T-Rex Pro for hiking, running, and biking as it has GPS, heartrate, and other features.
I wear my AMAZFIT T-Rex Pro for hiking, running, and biking as it has GPS, heartrate, and other features.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
24 x7, I've got a mechanical watch on my left wrist, and a Fitbit on my right.
I do take the watch off for KBs, though.
Usually not for barbells, unless I'm gearing up for competition and wearing wrist-wraps, which I don't usually wear for typical practice.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
That's a really good point,
I have some pairs of doubles where each half of the pair is from a different maker. I don't notice any difference when I'm using them.
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