Anyone got experience with ketogenic diets?

miraculish

Level 6 Valued Member
I use a ketogenic diet as part of my seizure management. I started out at 8g of carbs per day and (over the past 2 1/2 years) have worked up to 30g of carbs per day. I don't practice calorie restriction and just make sure I keep my ratios correct (currently 1:3:5 of carbs:protein:fat).
I started the diet out of desperation while I was waiting to get in with an epileptologist with the full knowledge that I could accidentally cause myself major physical problems. I didn't, but be smart and know your risks.
I did find it very difficult to keep on body fat when I was under 20g/day and that's one reason I took the chance on upping my carb intake. At 30g/day and sedentary (I am changing that!), I can keep on body fat rather easily now.
The diet works beautifully for my seizures and accounts for about the same amount of seizure control as my anticonvulsant. Even if my seizures vanished today though - even though the diet is so restrictive, I have a ton more energy than I did before and I would continue it. My body just runs better on fat.
 

LukeV

Level 5 Valued Member
While pursuing what was, at the time, a straight-forward low carb diet I checked my urine and found I was in ketosis. I was in no way attempting to reach ketosis but eliminating sugar, grains and the most obvious starchy vegetables while restricting fruit got me there. I also found that once in ketosis it pretty much didn't matter what I ate on a single day, I would be back in ketosis within 24-48 hours (usually 24). While in ketosis calories did matter if my aim was to lose weight, but I never put on weight no matter how much I ate
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

A paleo diet with "low fruits" and some goat cheese if you can digest it would lead to keto too I think.

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
That was my initial thought on the matter too. However, there seem to be variations that work better for the average individual. I recently had an intern with an extensive sports/weight lifting background, and as we were looking at my initial numbers, he suggested I increase the protein as well. There is something interesting that I came across (and need to investigate further) that protein consumed needs to be done at a level of 30+g per meal, otherwise it ends up not being used for protein synthesis. Again, I would recommend people check out the OKC group on Facebook for more info, as they have a very active community there looking at this.

Part of me wants to say that the 90/8/2 ratio may have been the initial ratio used for epileptics, but I can't say for certain.
There is some data out there that shows that it takes about 30 grams of protein to maximally stimulate protein synthesis in people over 35 years old. So the recommendation is to get protein in 30+ gram servings based on that data. In real life I am not sure how important that is. The issue is not settled in my mind yet. Still looking at the research.
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
upload_2017-2-22_18-22-45.png
Here is a graphic from a paper discussing 30grams and maximal protein synthesis.

From:
Dietary Guidelines should reflect new understandings about adult protein needs
Donald K Layman
Published: 13 March 2009
Nutrition & Metabolism 2009, 6:12 doi:10.1186/1743-7075-6-12
 

mprevost

Level 6 Valued Member
Hello all,

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with this and what your results were? I've heard keto is very effective for getting lean, but haven't tried it myself. Also, the big question, do calories count on keto (I've googled this and there seems to be a lack of consensus)?

Any info would be much appreciated!

Thanks,

Harry
Individual responses vary. I had a tripling of LDL cholesterol on a ketogenic diet. Follow on LDL particle count testing showed increased particle count as well. Not good! But results vary. Below is a snapshot of some of Jeff Voleks data. Note the variability in response to the diet.
upload_2017-2-22_18-38-7.png

The average response was no change but you can see that most subjects saw some change with some having a large increase in total cholesterol and some a large decrease. I would recommend testing for anyone considering going ketogenic.
 

HUNTER1313

Level 6 Valued Member
Years ago I had success with a form of the anabolic diet and intermittent fasting. I shed fat and gained some muscle. Usually had one carb refeed on the weekend. I may do I t again. It's nice eating fat, cheese, and meat. Heavy/whipping cream protein shakes were delicious too.
 

pet'

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@masa
You can also eat cheese cakes with additional proteins ;) (whey or veg proteins, because some of them are taste free).

Kind regards,

Pet'
 

masa

Level 8 Valued Member
Hello,

@masa
You can also eat cheese cakes with additional proteins ;) (whey or veg proteins, because some of them are taste free).

Kind regards,

Pet'
Thanks for the tip. Cheese cake is good. Gotta bake some with added protein powder.
 

Ken Korcak

Level 5 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
I think the biggest question is why do you want to try a keto diet? It's difficult to do properly and not necessary for weight loss. Low carb is nearly as effective for weight loss and is much easier. Also, you could look into the Modified Atkins Diet. MAD allows for higher protein intake than a ketogenic diet, while still calling for very low carb levels. Maybe give a listen to some of the podcasts Dominic D'Agostino has been on where he discusses these topics in detail.
Dominic D'Agostino is good to follow up on, as well as keto, he advocates fasting. I will be attempting my first 3 day fast soon. Then I will stay in ketosis for a while. Will keep you posted. Between D'Agostino and Tim Ferriss, I will be supplementing with MCT and BCAA during the fast. There is also talk of using exogenous ketones, but I prefer not to spend that kind of money if it is not needed. I will try to post my progress.
 

Ken Korcak

Level 5 Valued Member
Certified Instructor
Hello,


BCAA can help to recover if you train while fasting.

I let below some reading about MCT:
What Is MCT Oil Really? MCT Oils vs. Coconut Oil Explained
Supplements and Ketogenic Diets - Facts and Myths - Ketogains
Onnit MCT Oil

Kind regards,

Pet'
At the moment I think I will only have one training day during my 3 day fast. I will be starting a new barbell program so it will not be high intensity or high volume. BCAA's are on my radar, and I believe they are called for on the first day of the fast when getting into ketosis.

Thanks,
Ken
 
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