2accidental
Level 5 Valued Member
I'm astounded by this guy's approach, conclusions and arrogance-
Off-Topic Anyone seen this? Criticism of Pavel on Rogan by Bart Kay
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LarryB
Level 7 Valued Member
I was hoping that this wouldn’t gain any traction, but yes. This man is an a#@, I’m not smart enough or informed enough to make an argument against either of them. But if i had to choose a philosophy based in the men i see carrying it out, it would be a no brainer. This guy responds to any and all critics on any platform that uses his name. He’s just unstable...
North Coast Miller
Level 9 Valued Member
Can we get a TL/DR or is it a non-issue (nonsense)?
2accidental
Level 5 Valued Member
Unfortunately, snowballs gain traction the further along the mountain it travels with a big rock or tree to stop it. I had 4 people send me this video over the past week, so I thought I would bring it to attention here. Delete my post it if need be, i wont be offended. But I'm amazed how in this generation anyone can have a voice without any manners. He lives in the same country as me, i believe. I'll have to resist all temptation to leave my calluses imprint on his face.
Forgive me for my moment of losing manners myself
Forgive me for my moment of losing manners myself
coachnathanwhite
Level 6 Valued Member
I don't know this guy, but I really doubt he has put in even 1/4 of the time Pavel has in studying and research involving real people performing actual exercise instead of just regurgitating lab study results. I can't get too upset with this guy either, because it is clear that he hasn't seen or read the programming in S& S or The Quick & The Dead.
Of course Pavel had to use generalizations and speak in layman terms during this interview. He is taking some extremely complex material and attempting to distill it down into terms people without degrees in biochemical engineering can actually comprehend. One thing Pavel has always said is that if you want to know more then just "look at the research." He isn't guarding any secrets.
I have never had the impression from Pavel that he is claiming to be an absolute authority on any one area of exercise, but he has done a good job IMO of bringing decades worth of proven programming principles right to the front door of anyone who wants to put some skin in the game.
Of course Pavel had to use generalizations and speak in layman terms during this interview. He is taking some extremely complex material and attempting to distill it down into terms people without degrees in biochemical engineering can actually comprehend. One thing Pavel has always said is that if you want to know more then just "look at the research." He isn't guarding any secrets.
I have never had the impression from Pavel that he is claiming to be an absolute authority on any one area of exercise, but he has done a good job IMO of bringing decades worth of proven programming principles right to the front door of anyone who wants to put some skin in the game.
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Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Whether you agree or disagree, you're boosting this dude's view count and that's ultimately what videos like this are all about. I doubt the guy making the video even gives that much of a damn but is just hoping his viewers do.
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ClaudeR
Level 6 Valued Member
Well maybe he’s not wrong overall on what his point is, but I wouldn’t know because the format he’s using as well as the way he goes about it is so obnoxious I didn’t make it past 10 minutes (and I tried really hard)
a#$%*@#^ if there ever was one, regardless how valid his points may or may not be (as said I didn’t make it to where he supposedly gets into the details of where it’s all wrong).
Some people thrive on being obnoxious I-am-so-much-better-than-anyone-else personality, but really it’s unbearable regardless of if you like the guy he tears on into or not
a#$%*@#^ if there ever was one, regardless how valid his points may or may not be (as said I didn’t make it to where he supposedly gets into the details of where it’s all wrong).
Some people thrive on being obnoxious I-am-so-much-better-than-anyone-else personality, but really it’s unbearable regardless of if you like the guy he tears on into or not
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
I picked up on that right away. He seems to be one of those "Well, actually..." guys. Not a fan. Would not want to get stuck having a conversation with this chap at a party.
Great haircut though.
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max1993
Level 4 Valued Member
I'll try to work a TL;DR out because I'm interested now myself. Just watched it and found some interesting pieces of information, Bart is definitely right when they're talking about lactic acid, and polluting mitochondria, which refers to the anaerobic and aerobic threshold. Those concepts have been refuted for quite a while now actually, and as far as I understand, Pavel keeps talking about lactic acid, and acid building up, which is just not right. Should be lactate which is the anion of lactic acid and a product of anaerobic glycolysis - this intermediate product is then transported to the liver in the Cori-cycle and after that reused for glucogenesis. So Pavel says the "acidity in the muscle is a huge problem" but there is quite a big threshold for pH-levels inside the muscle, and that's why lactate is getting transported out of the cell, to stay in that threshold.
Well, Bart just doesn't like Pavel getting too deep into the topic of Exercise Physiology because his simplifying mixes with his own views, and which then again shows his views to be the correct ones.
Just to clarify here, I'm not on any side in this debate, just stating what I saw and heard. The explanations just seem a bit wonky, and I think this guy has a right not to go easy on Pavel, who also holds a degree in sport science.
Well, Bart just doesn't like Pavel getting too deep into the topic of Exercise Physiology because his simplifying mixes with his own views, and which then again shows his views to be the correct ones.
Just to clarify here, I'm not on any side in this debate, just stating what I saw and heard. The explanations just seem a bit wonky, and I think this guy has a right not to go easy on Pavel, who also holds a degree in sport science.
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
This is like walking into Scientology and critiquing L. Ron Hubbard. You're not going to get an unbiased response.
Alexander Halford
Level 8 Valued Member
Even if I wanted to listen to this individual, I couldn't get through 2 minutes of his way to talk and grimaces.
When dog barks at you, you're not getting on your four and bark back at him. Let the guy be satisfied with himself.
When dog barks at you, you're not getting on your four and bark back at him. Let the guy be satisfied with himself.
ShawnM
Level 9 Valued Member
Agreed. I don’t know him either but I’ll take advice from the former trainer of Russian Spec War soldiers over pretty much anyone any day of the week!
Benjamin Renaud
Level 8 Valued Member
Well, I wanted to see what his explanations were, since he keeps saying he'll explain as his show goes on, but I can't listen to the whole thing.
Sometimes the 'how' or 'why' isn't as important as the 'what'. I'm interested in knowing what's happening, and to a certain degree, the why and how. But not having a degree in biomechanics I like the explanations to be simplified. Pavel does a great job of simplifying things in all of his work so that I can learn and apply. That's all I need.
He might make valid points latter in his presentation but I'll never know. It would be an hour wasted. Much better spent with my family.
Sometimes the 'how' or 'why' isn't as important as the 'what'. I'm interested in knowing what's happening, and to a certain degree, the why and how. But not having a degree in biomechanics I like the explanations to be simplified. Pavel does a great job of simplifying things in all of his work so that I can learn and apply. That's all I need.
He might make valid points latter in his presentation but I'll never know. It would be an hour wasted. Much better spent with my family.
coachnathanwhite
Level 6 Valued Member
Dated, outdated, undated, pre-dated....doesn't make a difference. One thing that no one can refute is that Pavel has based his programming principles on empirical evidence that occurred over the course of 4 Olympic cycles. He even admits that he doesn't know biologically "exactly" why training with volume and intensity being uncoupled works, but it clearly does. That evidence is good enough for me.
MikeL
Level 6 Valued Member
This response should be applauded. All except this one are refuting the argument based on delivery, not fact. That doesn’t win a fact-based case (that you’re mostly all trying to make). The summary of points made (except quoted) is “this guy must be a jerk, Pavel trained Special Forces, I don’t know what either of them are really talking about but I’m emotionally invested in Pavel so he wins”.
max1993 thanks for your TLDR and viewpoint, it added real value to the discussion on what’s clearly going to be an emotive topic.
this forum always has such great, fact and experience based, argument. Please make it! This is your moment and I’d love to read the real defence!
Adam R Mundorf
Level 6 Valued Member
This seems to be a trending technique. Yesterday my son was showing me a YouTube video of one guy playing online chess (his face and his screen), which was inset as a replay with critical and humorous commentary by another chess player. This is modern communication and entertainment, I suppose.
Pavel definitely knows all about the regeneration of PCr from the mitochondria that he talks about in 16:00-18:00. That IS what A+A is all about. And yes, he has thought about the 4th energy system, it's in Q&D.
I hear a lot of critiquing things based on wording and the way concepts are presented. Only some of what he's disputing are differences in each of their facts or conclusions. I'm only up to about 19:00... Interested in the perspective on steady state cardio.
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