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Off-Topic Anyone seen this? Criticism of Pavel on Rogan by Bart Kay

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@Reardon55 I get that, in a sense.
But, Kenyan's run culturally. It's a thing. Kids run miles to school everyday. It's not training for them, it's cultural and a means to get somewhere ie a function of their daily life.
FWIW, I was just passing along my interpretation of Dr. Kay's thoughts on the matter. I wasn't suggesting I agreed with him.....
 
Mr. Kay's video currently has <9000 views, and it was posted three months ago. (100 views/day)

This thread has >3000 views, and it started yesterday.

If you search "bart kay pavel" the first google result is this forum thread!

Does Mr. Kay have something useful to say? I don't know. What I do know is:
1) His video hasn't gotten much traction.
2) He doesn't present his information in a way that makes me think he is trying to help.

I'd encourage everyone to just leave it alone. There are more valuble things to do with your time.
 
Sounds extremely interesting, but as I said - watching this video poses difficulties for me and, as I see, others. Could you elaborate what is "The SS vs Interval evolutionary argument" or link some layperson-friendly sources?

2 competing camps of people think the healthiest form of exercise should look like "what we evolved to do"

SS argument- believe humans evolved as persistence hunters - jog after your prey, wait until it tires out, capture and eat it.
HIIT argument - sprint/throw a spear something else in a burst of activity and then lounge.

There are proponents of each, detractors of each, and most likely the real answer falls in the middle somewhere.
 
It's really in me to go against the status quo. And I love it when people do. But please do your homework when you do so.
I hereby invite him to run an ultra marathon. Or hecke, even train for it with only interval training....
 
Mr. Kay's video currently has <9000 views, and it was posted three months ago. (100 views/day)

This thread has >3000 views, and it started yesterday.

If you search "bart kay pavel" the first google result is this forum thread!

Does Mr. Kay have something useful to say? I don't know. What I do know is:
1) His video hasn't gotten much traction.
2) He doesn't present his information in a way that makes me think he is trying to help.

I'd encourage everyone to just leave it alone. There are more valuble things to do with your time.
Good point. How's your training going ?
 
The idea that the only way to exercise is HIIT is rubbish. What else is left to say?
 
Mr. Kay's video currently has <9000 views, and it was posted three months ago. (100 views/day)

This thread has >3000 views, and it started yesterday.

If you search "bart kay pavel" the first google result is this forum thread!

Does Mr. Kay have something useful to say? I don't know. What I do know is:
1) His video hasn't gotten much traction.
2) He doesn't present his information in a way that makes me think he is trying to help.

I'd encourage everyone to just leave it alone. There are more valuble things to do with your time.
That's a valid way to think about it. Your instincts I think are right in this case.
 
Will clean and pressing big weights make you awesome at S&S?

Will S&S make you great at cleans and Presses?

Will the above methodes work? Offcourse not!

Be great at endurance? Run, Bike, Ski, Row.

Powerlift? Train your a#@ of with heavy weights. Sleep, eat, repeat.

Bodybuilding? Isolate. But don't forget the basics.

MMA/Combat sports? Train your sport. The rest is not that important.

Being a normal dude? Train and whatever the f*** you want. Life, work, kids and being a husband / wife is way more important.

We are all amateurs. No one cares. Just do your thing and have fun doing so.
 
Will clean and pressing big weights make you awesome at S&S?

Will S&S make you great at cleans and Presses?

Will the above methodes work? Offcourse not!

Be great at endurance? Run, Bike, Ski, Row.

Powerlift? Train your a#@ of with heavy weights. Sleep, eat, repeat.

Bodybuilding? Isolate. But don't forget the basics.

MMA/Combat sports? Train your sport. The rest is not that important.

Being a normal dude? Train and whatever the f*** you want. Life, work, kids and being a husband / wife is way more important.

We are all amateurs. No one cares. Just do your thing and have fun doing so.
This guy got it right.

Everything works provided it's safe, progressive and you enjoy it.
 
@Reardon55 I get that, in a sense.
But, Kenyan's run culturally. It's a thing. Kids run miles to school everyday. It's not training for them, it's cultural and a means to get somewhere ie a function of their daily life.
My grandfather used to say that when he was young, if you wanted to go somewhere, you walked--if you were in a hurry, you ran. (This was in Iowa, about 100 years ago.)
 
wasn't suggesting I agreed with him.....

I know, well figured so as you quoted him so it wasn't to counter you but to add further context....

I'm not an endurance guy but value easy aerobic activity. I sprint and currently not doing so, the only running I do at the moment is easy. No plans to do any events and such, just easy, usually 30-45 minutes, might stretch to an hour if nice weather.
My HIIT is S&S. My sport is sprinting.
I will pick it up again when this covid s**tshow is over.
There is no conflict btw. There would be if I wanted to run a 30 min 10k or marathon but I don't.
Easy stuff is relaxing too, meditative and outside.
Thing is, we know here that trouble and stress occurs in those junk miles. And a lot of endurance types don't do easy enough.
So I agree with him there, if that is what his point is?
 
Well...being an endurance guy... I haven’t found any cons, but then again I have only been doing this for 45+yrs, so there is a chance something negative might still come up.

As I have said before (many times) the ‘slow’ in LSD is a bit of a misnomer. A lot of serious endurance folks prefer the term LED; with the ’E’ meaning easy. Easy doesn‘t have to be slow, it has to be easy. Easy in the endurance world generally means at or just below ones AeT. So with that in mind there is a better (albeit still incomplete) definition of LED.

It does however become individualistic and somewhat situational in nature. My LED and that of Kilian Jornet, are going to be different. (By a lot...)

Thankyou for that. I would say ultimately the 'L' is the major issue here. 'Long' is a boderline useless definition in itself.

I was just hanging out with a lad who would class the 5 minutes up hill to my house as long. I know an ex army guy who told me he didn't understand why his knees hurt when he decided to start 'easing' himself back into running- his first run was a ten miler. These are extreme examples for a little levity, but still.

BJJ has a big advantage in that it's frankly in my opinion a lot safer than judo or wrestling.

All I hear BJJ guys talking about is injuries. One bloke was telling me how it's never the same people in class each week, cos people are constantly healing or coming back from something.
 
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I know, well figured so as you quoted him so it wasn't to counter you but to add further context....

I'm not an endurance guy but value easy aerobic activity. I sprint and currently not doing so, the only running I do at the moment is easy. No plans to do any events and such, just easy, usually 30-45 minutes, might stretch to an hour if nice weather.
My HIIT is S&S. My sport is sprinting.
I will pick it up again when this covid s**tshow is over.
There is no conflict btw. There would be if I wanted to run a 30 min 10k or marathon but I don't.
Easy stuff is relaxing too, meditative and outside.
Thing is, we know here that trouble and stress occurs in those junk miles. And a lot of endurance types don't do easy enough.
So I agree with him there, if that is what his point is?
I’m definitely guilty of training that way for marathons and cycling in the past. Only now am i addressing my inability to truly stay below or even within the aerobic zone.
 
All I hear BJJ guys talking about is injuries.
This is very true , the culture could use a change in jiu-jitsu. Way too many people going too hard or trying to fight out of submissions instead of tapping , trying to learn from it , and continuing.Maybe it’s the MMA culture crossing over into BJJ? It’s a shame really , as there are less and less experienced BJJ players to practice and train with as most get injured and drop out. People are blown away when I tell them i have been training 21+ years. In regards to the discussion above, I am most definitely a casual athlete and want to make the most of the little training time I have , my concern is that I don’t want to do anything that would compromise my health long term. I really like the idea of efficiency.
 
Maybe Q&D could be the answer I’m looking for .Also ,I have had the privilege of being able to attend various Pavel seminars /workshops throughout the years. I have never found Pavel to be anything but courteous and professional. Mr Bart in the video gains nothing by insulting or patronizing and nit picking the videos without the author ( Pavel) being able to retort. I don’t like to give people my energy who use theirs to try to put other people down.just my 2 cents.
 
This is very true , the culture could use a change in jiu-jitsu. Way too many people going too hard or trying to fight out of submissions instead of tapping , trying to learn from it , and continuing.Maybe it’s the MMA culture crossing over into BJJ? It’s a shame really , as there are less and less experienced BJJ players to practice and train with as most get injured and drop out. People are blown away when I tell them i have been training 21+ years. In regards to the discussion above, I am most definitely a casual athlete and want to make the most of the little training time I have , my concern is that I don’t want to do anything that would compromise my health long term. I really like the idea of efficiency.
I have lots of respect for BJJ skills, training and BJJ athletes. For many reasons however I have stuck with judo and kendo over the years. Indeed, culture has something to do with this, although my main reasons are more related to the fact that being able to keep your feet in a fight is very important. Giving up tactical mobility (keeping on your feet keeps your tactical mobility there) on purpose or because you don't know how to handle fighting standing up, just does not make sense to me. I've been at this stuff too long to be convinced otherwise (since 1988)... Having said all that, injuries like tearing your shoulder out or whatever in BJJ though is different from being slammed down hard on the mats onto your face or head and breaking your neck or whatever like can happen with every throw in judo. Judo is safe (and wrestling - judo and wrestling are two sides of the same coin) providing you do it right and gently, you attack safely knowing how to do it safely, and you know how to fall and keep drilling how to fall. When two guys go at it with an attitude in judo (and this _does_ happen, just like in BJJ) people do get hurt, and the impact of being thrown down hard can make this kind of hurt especially bad. But, indeed, I've been at judo since 1988 and was competitive for about 6 years (also cross-competed a bit in BJJ) and have been injured several times, but never terribly badly. I guess my point here is that while maybe judo and wrestling cause less injuries overall than BJJ(?) but that the potential for more serious injury is a lot more present in them than in BJJ... At least this has been my assumption.

I do think being able to fight with your hands in the spur of the moment is important. One big selling point of S&S initially was the emphasis Pavel puts on being fight-ready. And I'll add, and my kendo sensei thinks the same way, kendo has self-defence applications. Too easy to get shot or stabbed though in real life. Honestly, these things are to me 99% sports and cultural activities only.
 
I'd encourage everyone to just leave it alone. There are more valuble things to do with your time.

When all the outcasts are kicked out of town, they find each other, find in each other being of a similar feather,
and have a great party...and don't miss being back amongst the popular kids.

Nice party we're having!
 
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