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Other/Mixed Are orthotics actually bad?

Other strength modalities (e.g., Clubs), mixed strength modalities (e.g., combined kettlebell and barbell), other goals (flexibility)
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SMason22

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Wasn't sure where to post this, but most of my discussions have been on this board so thought I would try here. Please feel free to move if it is more appropriate elsewhere.

It seems to be the accepted view with the advent of barefoot/pose running that orthotics are bad and weaken your feet.

Is this actually true or just some Paleo / counter culture / 'bro science' false logic?

I was at the podiatrist today for some general maintenance and mentioned I was trying to transition out of orthotics after several years of constant use. He asked me why, to which I responded that I didn't want to rely on this 'crutch' forever which was weakening my feet. He said that they don't weaken your feet at all, and no studies (of many) have ever shown this. We had a good debate back and forth and I came away questioning my beliefs and why I thought what I thought.

Granted my podiatrist probably makes a good portion of his revenue from orthotics, but he is also an expert in feet and gait.

I would love to hear the thoughts of others.

Thanks
 
Do you run in them or use them in your everyday shoes? Or both?

I don't want to stray too far away from the orthotics topic, but I think a lot of BS is floating around regarding barefoot running and walking.
The barefoot supporters always go for the "our ancestors only walked barefoot and we were designed to walk barefoot" argument.
If you do some reading in my own posts you'll see that I'm somewhat of a supporter of doing things that we were designed to do or reverse-engineering the demands our ancestors had to face.
So yes I'm a supporter of barefoot running, walking and training, but it has to be under the right cirumcstances.
Our ancestors and the few indigenous people that exist today walked and runned on rather soft undergrounds like sand, dirt, forest ground etc. and not on concrete.
Running miles and miles or doing all your walking in barefoot shoes on concrete pavements and asphalt streets is just a disaster to happen IMO.

If I understand orthotics right you need them, because your feet aren't right and they stop them from degenerating even further. I think he's right that they don't weaken your feet, but they don't strengthen them either.
If I were you I'd do specific work to strengthen my feet, but keep the orthotics on for the bulk of the time. Over time you'll maybe see an improvement and can reduce the time you wear them and maybe even get rid of them altogether.
Of course as always that's my personal opinion and I'm not a professional in the medical field.
 
God put an arch in your foot for a reason. When you wear orthotics they’re taking the load that your arch was meant to take. Over time those muscles go dormant because they’re not getting used anymore. I’ve had severe plantar fasciitis for years and the best thing I ever did was getting rid of my doctor prescribed orthotics and allowing my feet to function the way they were naturally meant to.

I wear minimalist shoes (and also go barefoot) that have no rising heel, are very flexible, a large toe box, and absolutely zero arch support. I’m a regular runner that uses the pose style and I have no problems where as before I had to just give up running. With that said I wouldn’t recommend taking that plunge all at once if you’ve been wearing a modern day style shoe all your life. Those dormant muscles need time to wake up and acclimate so you have to do it very gradually or you’ll just make things worse.

I was raised in the 60’s during the days of Converse, Keds, PF Flyers, and Red Ball Jets. Those shoes were flat and had no arch support and the incidents of feet problems back then were negligible compared to today. And then Nike came along and screwed everything up with their stiff, high heeled, corrective, arch supported cast of a shoe that made it darn near impossible to run without heel striking. Thus all the foot injuries you see today.

And when it comes to doctors I’ve had it with them. I’ve had 4 major problems in my life......my neck, my back, my shoulders, and my feet. And in every instance the doctors made my situation worse. Now I take it upon myself to do my own research and listen to my body and instinct. I’m not advocating this mindset for everyone but it was my only alternative after having spent 10’s of thousands of dollars, surgery, and countless wasted hours in rehab/physical therapy. I know there’s some good doctors out there but trying to find one without going broke is the challenge. They’re like mechanics....if you ever find a good, honest one hang on to him or her for dear life.
 
The answer truly is: it depends.

1) Not everybody's arches are created equal, aka the bone structure varies. This may mean that a certain amount of support is needed for the foot and ankle. YMMV.

2) Not everybody is willing or able to strengthen their feet and ankles sufficiently to maintain appropriate foot mechanics while walking, standing, or running. These people may likely benefit from arch support. YMMV.

I used to have orthotics. I eventually got rid of them because I felt that my feet and ankles were stronger than they used to be. Things like standing on dynadiscs, balance work, proper kettlebell swings, etc., are helpful, if progressed appropriately. It can be done. Note: I did not have any pain when I stopped using them. If I did, I would have kept wearing them.
 
I like to train barefoot... and walk barefoot at home. Training barefoot feels stronger. I get balance issues in swings when using shoes.

But i think alot of our ancestors also had sandals or some kind of clothing for their feet.

Workshoes... now those cause pain in my feet. so yea modern shoes with archs cant be good.
 
Has anyone delved into the scientific literature around orthotics ?

It seems they do not make your foot weaker, but actually stronger...just in a different way.
 
SMason22 said:
@Hasbro arches are an evolutionary remnant, needed by primates that gripped trees with their feet.
Click to expand...

Also great for gripping the ground during swings, while hiking on uneven ground, and climbing over rocks.

OP: I reduced my injuries (hyperextended or occasionally sprained ankle) by switching to barefoot shoes a few years ago. Other people with my physical issues go with sturdy boots that go past the ankle. I also had an out-turned foot that was fixed by heavy swings, but many people prefer orthotics for that correction. My daughter needed orthotics to learn how to walk and may need them again now that she's had a growth spurt (I suspect swings and other exercises would help her, but she's nine and not terribly interested yet).
There are usually different approaches to addressing physical issues and people pick what fits their life. What works is what you will use or practice.
 
@Kettlebelephant I always love the "your ancestors did it so you should too argument".

My ancestors also had a life expectancy of 30 and/or died during a snowstorm while sleeping on a layer of hay for warmth.
 
Like @Hasbro , I started running when Chucks were the only game in town, and didn't run any distances over 3-4 miles at a time until after I'd been running a couple years. I attribute a lot of miles of injury-free running to that. The only injury I had for years was when I tried out some Asics shoes that were engineered to control proration- which they did too well, and I broke an ankle a mile out. Even without pose and all that, I ran in racing flats and very light trainers that let me feet work with no problems.

While I respect doctors in areas of their competence, I also have seen my share of doctor "fads," and it's best to stay away from them. They are mostly "new" things that are billed as benign, wonderful, and a cure-all for something. I remember diet pills (hard to believe they passed meth out like candy), and ear tubes from awhile ago, and oxy's and heart stents (article this week!) from news today. Orthotics were in this category when they came out...they were going to help everyone be a "runner" and participate in the running boom.

This is not to say someone can't have a structural abnormality and need orthotics to correct it. If so, it should be done by a doc who understands how all the leg joints work together, from the hips down to the toes. These joints are all remarkable at compensating for another, and a hip problem may show up in the toes, and vice versa. Knee problems may be caused by hip or foot issues.

If orthotics are not for a structural issue, then they can probably be dispensed by strength. A beach, or any sand, is your best friend, or hiking (carefully) in uneven terrain in softer shoes. As said above, start very small and build up very gradually. Pick up things with your toes, practice k-bells barefoot, and all that. If it's some weak muscle, it'll probably improve function in all leg/hip joints and reduce inflammation in body. If there's a structural issue, keep the orthotics and be grateful for them.
 
Thank you @Matts for your well written comment and I agree completely that if there’s a structural problem then orthotics are fine. Other than that I personally can’t recommend them.

And @SMason22 as for your comment of “arches are an evolutionary remnant, needed by primates that gripped trees with their feet”......that statement means absolutely nothing to those of us that believe evolution is a farce.
 
Hasbro said:
Thank you @Matts for your well written comment and I agree completely that if there’s a structural problem then orthotics are fine. Other than that I personally can’t recommend them.

And @SMason22 as for your comment of “arches are an evolutionary remnant, needed by primates that gripped trees with their feet”......that statement means absolutely nothing to those of us that believe evolution is a farce.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Do you think evolution is mutually exclusive with religion?
 
@SMason22 if this discussion doesn’t get back on topic I can assure you it’s likely to get shut down. I gave you my opinion and personal experience with orthotics and I have nothing else to add. You have a great day.
 
@Hasbro I really meant no offence whatsoever. I am merely curious. You came back to say that evolution doesn't fit with what you believe so I wanted to hear more about that...that's all!
 
Hasbro said:
Thank you @Matts for your well written comment and I agree completely that if there’s a structural problem then orthotics are fine. Other than that I personally can’t recommend them.

And @SMason22 as for your comment of “arches are an evolutionary remnant, needed by primates that gripped trees with their feet”......that statement means absolutely nothing to those of us that believe evolution is a farce.
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense to most of us. Very big of you to being religion into something and then run for the hills when someone wants to talk about it. Well done.
 
I'll weigh in, if for no other reason than to bring things back around o_O.

I see orthotics as similar to ankle braces, knee braces, etc. They serve an important purpose, but most people (not all) should use them as a short term intervention, not long term. Some people need them forever, most people shouldn't ever get them. If you use them, you should probably try to very slowly transition out. I switched right over from "regular" shoes to minimalist shoes, and my enthusiasm was rewarded with a stress fracture. Don't do that...
 
SMason22 said:
Wasn't sure where to post this, but most of my discussions have been on this board so thought I would try here. Please feel free to move if it is more appropriate elsewhere.

It seems to be the accepted view with the advent of barefoot/pose running that orthotics are bad and weaken your feet.

Is this actually true or just some Paleo / counter culture / 'bro science' false logic?

I was at the podiatrist today for some general maintenance and mentioned I was trying to transition out of orthotics after several years of constant use. He asked me why, to which I responded that I didn't want to rely on this 'crutch' forever which was weakening my feet. He said that they don't weaken your feet at all, and no studies (of many) have ever shown this. We had a good debate back and forth and I came away questioning my beliefs and why I thought what I thought.

Granted my podiatrist probably makes a good portion of his revenue from orthotics, but he is also an expert in feet and gait.

I would love to hear the thoughts of others.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I believe in staying barefoot as much as possible. Not sure how orthotics could be good for your feet, other than putting a bandaid on a problem that was never addressed
 
Well, the common foot problems in our society are almost non existent in non shod populations. The foot is perfectly capable of handling the stresses of walking and running without any external support, if you train it to do so. But that takes quite a bit of time, years, not weeks. It took me 5 years to transition to very minimalist shoes and I am not sure I am out of the woods yet. But, like others here I see orthotics as a temporary solution, like walking with crutches. There are some uncommon exceptions, congenital abnormalities and traumatic injuries for example, but most should not be in orthotics permanently.

When you study the biomechanics you realize that the foot moves for a reason. When you start locking down the foot with lots of external support, you start to transfer that motion elsewhere and can cause other problems. What most people miss is that the body is one flexible piece. Foot problems often originate at the hips, or lower back or elsewhere. Many (most?) podiatrists do not recognize that fact and deal with the foot only. I have seen countless cases of overpronation caused by weak hips (glute medius, and core weakness primarily). Dealing with foot pain properly is rarely just about the foot.
 
Thanks @mprevost . Given my short term aspirations (discussed elsewhere) and the long amount of time required to get out of orthotics after 4-5y of constant use, I think I will need to rely on them as a crutch during my selection/course. Then, when through, I can work on weaning off. Would you roughly agree with this approach (albeit less than optimal)?
 
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