Barbell Assistance Work

[Kenny Croxdale]

@Geoff Chafe Ever try back extension deadlifts for dl assistance?

I've been doing them lately after seeing this video by Pete Rubish. Really like them, they make my entire posterior chain feel nice.

The Best?

"The Best" is a trite expression. If this was "The Best" Auxiliary Exercise for the Deadlift, there would be no other Auxiliary Exercises.

With that said, it is definitely "One of The Best". That because it falls in line with one of the...

Auxiliary Exercise Rule For Increasing The Deadlift

As noted in my previous post, Deadlift Strength is built via employing Auxiliary Exercise with movement pattern and muscle involve,ment similar to the Deadlift.

Thus, Pete Rubish 45 Degree Hip Extension/Back Raise definitively is on the list of, "One of The Best Auxiliary Deadlift Exercises". ''

Now let's look at the...

45 Degree Hip/Back Extension Muscle Loading

Exercises are broken down into three different type of Strength Curves. That meaning parts of all exercises are Overloaded (Maximally Loaded) while some parts are Underload (Moderately Loaded).

The 45 Degree Hip/Back Extension falls in to the "Bell Shaped Strength Curve". The movement is Underloaded in the Bottom and Top part of the movement.

The 45 Degree Hip/Back Extension is Overloaded in the Middle Range of the Movement.

Thus, The 45 Degree Hip/Back Extension improves Strength in the Knee Area of the Deadlift.

Are All Hip Extension Exercises Created Equal?
https://bretcontreras.com/wp-content/uploads/Are-All-Hip-Extension-Exercises-Created-Equal.pdf



This is an excellent article and video on the three types of Hip/Back Extensions: Good Mornings, 45 Degree and the 90 Degree/Parallel Hip/Back Extension. It provide in depth analysis the different loading patterns of each.

Hip/Back Extension Hip Placement

One of the determinate factors in the 45 and 90 Degree Hip/Back Extension is your hip position on the pads.

Lower Pad Position: Placing the pads lower, under your hips, places the workload on the Hamstrings and Glutes.

Higher Pad Position: Placing the pad higher, on your abdominal muscles, place the workload on the Erectors. Placing the pad even higher place the workload on the Thoracic Back.

"Everything Works But Nothing Works Forever"

The body eventually adapts to training methods and exercises. When that occurs progress stops.

The adaptation is know as "The General Adaptation Syndrome".

The key to stimulating progress once it has stopped is to "Change Something". This is the foundation of Periodization Training.

This is one of many research article that demonstrated the optimal method for increasing Strength is...

CIVE Changes in exercises are more effective than in loading schemes to improve muscle strength. - PubMed - NCBI

..."CIVE (Constant Intensity-VARIED Exercise) is more efficient to produce strength gains..."

VIVE ,Varied Intensity-VARIED Exercise came in behind CIVE.

The Common Denominator

VARIED Exercise is the common denominator in both protocols: Constant Intensity-VARIED Exercise and Varied Intensity-VARIED Exercise.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[krg]

@kennycro@@aol.com

That's a really interesting paper. The full text can be found here:

http://files.profricardo2.webnode.p...s to improve muscle strength Fonseca 2014.pdf


There is some weakness with applying the methodology more broadly - this study was done with people with no training for 6 months prior, and the tests were done on a Smith machine.

Despite the fact that the subjects were untrained they were initially squatting (in a Smith machine) almost 2x BW - suggesting that they were either lying about doing strength training, just really strong, or that I have no idea what a Smith machine is.

Still the % increases over 12 weeks and the difference when adding in the variable exercises look real (statistically <5% chance of getting that result by chance).

Hmmm, that's making me rethink whether I should be doing more than just grinding away on a couple of lifts for weeks on end.......

 

[Shahaf Levin]

This thread got me back to a shift I had in my approach for assistance work about a year ago. It came from my than relatively short journey with SF/FMS/OS. This is from the point of view of GPP training and does not suppose to apply to training for strength sports (powerlifting, olympic weightlifting) or hypertrophy purposes, although it might apply to the former and help with the later.

A year ago I figured out that since assistance work is suppose assist the main movement it should be done prior to it. It makes more sense with strength-is-a-skill approach. That light bulb wen on while reading @ShawnM question and @natewhite39's answer here (and my original post on the subject here).

If an assistance drill helps you to move better (improves your main skill) do it in the prep portion of the session. If that does not help you to move better than "assistance" is questionable and the exercise should be reconsidered.

About the same time I started using the term movement-prep instead of warmup. I think it's more than semantics. Picked it up here on the blog and forum (mostly from @Pavel Macek).

 

[Steve Freides]

@Shahaf Levin, there is a difference between movement prep work, which should be done before, and strength assistance work, which should be done afterwards in order to avoid pre-fatigueing the muscles used in the main lift.

Except, of course, if some pre-fatigue happens to be part of your training plan - I have used this, in very small doses, with some success, and indeed, one can start to straddle the line between movement prep and assistance work.

All clear as mud, eh?

-S-

 

[Shahaf Levin]

@Steve Freides, I know the classical difference and trained that way for about three years. What I am saying is that from skill development point-of-view, IMHO, proper movement prep is the assistance work.

I guess I'm straddling that muddy line

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

Hmmm, that's making me rethink whether I should be doing more than just grinding away on a couple of lifts for weeks on end.......

Non-Linear Periodization Training

I am a fan of Non-Linear Periodization Training. That meaning changing exercises more often than with the Traditional Periodization Training Programs.

The determine factor in how often to rotate exercises is how quickly you adapt.

The general guideline for the length of the training period has to do with your...

Training Age

That means how long you have been training, not how old you are.

Novice Lifter adapt to a training program slowly. Thus, they can perform the same exercise for about 6 - 8 weeks before they need to change something.

Advance Lifter adapt quickly to a training program. Thus, they need to change their training exercise around every 3 - 4 weeks.

However, when you stop making progress and stall in a training program, that means you need to change something.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[IoannisDyonisos]

Different things work differently for different people I find in my experience of having trained others and lifting myself. Different things also seem to work differently at different points in your development and depending upon other stresses and activities in your life. Simply jumping from one program to the next every week or two however is generally always a recipe for poor results or disaster. I'd say try something that seems interesting for at least a month and if it is producing gains ride it for a couple more to milk those before moving on. If you are always starting over you are doing just that beginning to work on something and abandoning the effort before having accomplished anything of significance.

A specific assistance lift, lets say Yates Rows, might be very helpful in an effort to raise your DL from say 350 to 400 but not helpful at all in getting from 450 to 500. A simple change such as a different approach be it rep scheme, frequency, volume, or intensity (or all of those) in that assistance lift might make all the difference. Alternatively your body might respond better at that point from a bare bones no back lift besides Dead Lift approach or switching out the Yates Row for Bent Row with torso horizontal to the ground or using deficits and rack pulls instead of Rows. Getting the prefect program at the ideal time and consistently continuing on for years thusly is somewhat unrealistic however unfortunately. We humans are sadly far from perfect.

When I read books or articles on the net, I find that I'm much, much more attracted to simple training programs than those with a great variety of accessory lifts and even a variety in the main lifts. I'm inclined to say that time will tell if my feelings are right or not, but I don't think I really have the time that would tell.

 

[Deleted member 5559]

For me it's time based. I add things with the time I have. Two days per week and I'm sticking to the basics, 5-6 days per week and I'll get more assistance work in. I definitely use programs as templates more than to the T. I would rather understand and practice the spirit of the law than I would blindly follow the letter of the law. All programs use philosophies at the core which I think is more important to implement than some of the details of a program.

I am also migrating my training to have more specificity in it which evolves from more broad brush to more narrowly focused in preparation for a specific objective. I am trying to stop having arbitrary performance goals as the end that should simply be the means to the end instead. In order to peak, assistance work becomes more important as the means to those ends I think.

 

[MikeTheBear]

My recent goal is Log Press so I am improving my clean, pressing, upper back, dip and drive, and wrist strength. It's hard to just train Log when the minimum weight is almost 200lb, so I need assistance to improve.

I once had the opportunity to play with a log. I found it very different than a barbell clean and jerk.

I have a basic template for my key lifts and then add other stuff based on how I feel that day. The best training program is one that you will do consistently.