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Old Forum Asymmetric strength / losing strength

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Joe,

Couple of questions:

You seem to be separating "corrective exercise" routines and "training routines" - if I am correct in that please expand a bit.

The goal of FMS is NOT to "correct everything" and then train.

Also expand on the "reverting back to dysfunction" you mentioned in your last post
 
Hey Brett,

Sure I have no problem expanding. Yes for the most part I do separate my corrective exercises from my regular exercise routine in a sense, the reason for the most part and in a sense is because all movements involve one another so one can not completley avoid movements trying to be corrected. All you can do is avoid the exercises that would hinder the movements. What I do is use my correctives, which for me was always my hips and shoulders, as warm ups or movement preparation to my actually lifting routine. Reason being you never want your correctives to be to hard, there not suppose to challenge you in the way of muscle fatigue or cardiovascular exhaustion. They are only suppose to challenge that movement pattern.
      From what I have read and seen with in my training and my clients training while trying to correct certain movement dysfunctions you also do not want to train against them. For instance if you have really restricted movement is the shoulders you shouldnt be doing heavy shoulder presses until correct function is obtained. If you were to do so the dysfunction could not only get worse but could cause injury since you are not lifting in proper form because of restrictions.
     Now when it come to reverting back to dysfunction after corrective exercises have done there job. A lot of individuals make the mistake of forgetting that dysfunction was ever there. That incorrect movement was formed over many years so for most part it will come back. Now that is to say it will come back if you do not keep exercises within your regimen that keep you moving within that full range of motion or correct pattern. So say I correct my shoulder mobility and score an even 3 on both sides. Then I would want to do proper exercises such as halos, or 360's with the macebell even around the worlds with a sandbag to keep this full range of motion that I have just achieved. Now I have not studied what would happen long term, such as if the dysfunction would completely go away after years of maintaining this movement preparation but that is for another time Ive rambled on enough for now haha.

Joe Dymnioski
 
Hey Brett,

If you feel I am incorrect please let me know, I am always interested in constructive crtitcism especially from a very experienced FMS professional such as your self.

 

Joe Dymnioski
 
Hi Matt,

Look up Piers Kwan in Brissy. He is SFG & CK-FMS qualified, he runs a facility somewhere in the 'Gabba.  He will also be attending the workshop in Brissy this Saturday.

Cheers,

Dave
 
Cheers Dave,

 

I appreciate the post and your help.  I'm impressed there are a few quality SFG people here locally.  I would have liked to attend on Sat, but am spending the $$ on getting my muscle imbalances sorted.

Thanks again!
 
Joe,

There is some good stuff in your posts

Once you have the FMS baseline you know what needs attention and what to not work on for the moment - as to your example - with a 3/1 SM overhead pressing should be put on hold till the pattern improves and/but you can superset correctives throughout the training session (see Mark Snow's book on movementlecutures.com) so the correctives do not necessarily need to be separate.  Although using correctives as movement prep prior to the session is also a good way to go - just depends on the individual.

You said that you had seen FMS and Z health people go back to "dysfunction" after correctives which you did not elaborate on...

Usually a pattern that keeps falling into "dysfunction" typically comes from either 1) not being on the right weak link (for example trying to correct a squat pattern when there is an ASLR dysfunction present), 2) not completing the corrective strategy (a quick change of a pattern from a 2/1 to a 2/2 from a corrective drill is not the end of the strategy but is rather only the beginning).
 
Hey Brett,

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond back to me. I will definitley have to try supersetting the correctives, that was something I have not thought of. Unfortunatley because of financial reasons have not been able to attend a workshop or get certified. All of my knowledge has been learned from reading all of Grey Cook, Mike Boyle, and Pavel's books as well as working in a fitness and wellness gym that incorporates the FMS as the initial assessment. Even though I do not agree with how they are teaching and using the FMS after doing alot of research on my own. Which leads into the point of me telling you all this haha, at the facillity I work at I see alot of trainers and managers assessing with the FMS, which is great. but then they prescribe correctives for clients to do on their own with no supervision unless they purchase training. So I see alot of people begin to see progress with the correctives but since they do not have the next progression they end up pretty much where they started,  like you said correctives are just the beginning. I also see this happen with lazy professionals that work on themselves for two weeks and then think the problem is solved and stop doing any form of corrections or movement prep which then they also end up where they started. That is what I meant by seeing some fms professionals and z health professional regress to original dysfunction, Not to slight FMS and Z health professionals because that is where I am heading with my career. At the wellness center I work at there is a major disconnect between the FMS and corrective exercise progressions.
     While I have your attention is there going to be anything like the CK- FMS for Strong First?

Joe Dymnioski
 
Just thought I would put an intuitive idea out there that I had while training the other week.

 

Dealing with my asymmetry has taught me a lot about strength, so while I'd rather not have the problem, I've learnt from it.  Pavel and recently the Movement philosophy have been great teachers and inspiration for my idea.

Having an asymmetry in my strength has made me weaker than I could and should be, despite my training (powerlifts, weighted chins, weighted dips, 5 by 5 mostly).  Therefore having symmetric movement patterns would mean I should and could be stronger.  Therefore this to me means that strength has to be considered as a "whole body  ability", wholistically, where the strength of the whole (ie. a movement) is greater than the sum of the strength of the parts (of the movement or lift).

This (if true) would have major implications in how one should train for strength  - particularly that movements should be trained, or muscles should be trained wholistically rather than in isolation.  Strength has to be considered moreso on the whole.

It is an intuition from experience that still needs tweaking with details added.
 
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