Kettlebell Back injury, Mcgill method and Pttp

[Harsh]

Hi everyone,
This is my first post on the forum.
I am 28 years old. I hurt my back about 3 weeks ago. Before that i had been following pttp since 4-5 weeks with deadlifts and floor presses.

After going through the stuart mcgill's back mechanic and listening to various podcasts he has been on, i have made the following observations-
• the pain is related to flexion intolerance.
• the injury might have been because of lifting right after long hours of sitting.

About my deadlift-
• imho my deadlift technique was good enough to prevent injury. I use conventional form of deadlift. Each time before a rep i go through a checklist in my head-nuetral spine, midsection bracing, using arms like ropes, anti shrug, loaded hamstrings etc.
• i have got long legs with respect to my torso. This leads to my shins being vertical and my hips being high in the deadlift. I think this is a problem.
• i reached 102.5 kg for 5 reps(5th was a bit of a struggle) as the peak of the last cycle i did in pttp.

About recovery-
I have been able to recover from-not being able to even slightly move my hips while lying down, having excruciating pain sitting up, sitting down, standing up etc.-to now being almost pain free. I avoided pain triggers to minimise the pain and started doing Dr Mcgill's big 3 exercises. I started using a mild lumbar support while sitting and lying down. I am happy that i am 80-90% recovered.

About my training and goals-
I am not a competitive athlete currently. I used to compete and was pretty good at full contact karate during 2009-2013. But as i explored Pavel Tsatsouline's work and minimalist training, i have found out strength to be the most useful quality for day to day affairs. I also enjoy being strong(with whatever strength standards that i have). I use both kettlebells and barbell.

My queries:
• is deadlifting safe for me to pursue my strength goals? Dr Mcgill says it might not be an exercise for everyone. He says loaded carries(especially suitcase carries) and sled work are better alternatives.
• is it necessary to test one's strength? After the injury, i have reservations about grinding and struggling (even for more than a little) for a rep.
• if i am to continue deadlifting should i change my form considering my body type?

It would be very kind of Steve Freides to provide some inputs considering his experience in dealing with back issues and having deadlifting expertise.

 

[william bad butt]

@Harsh

Welcome to the club, I'm flexion intolerant as well. Or at least I was. I think I'm in remission. Have a positive mindset, you can still get strong and improve the quality of your life. You just have to be smart about it. And be patient, you cant move faster than your back allows.

Back Mechanic is a great book. To this day, I still do the McGill Big 3, daily. Takes me 5 minutes. Focusing on my spinal hygiene was important.

It would be a good idea to see a doctor first. And maybe work on the Back Mechanic recommendations. I would not deadlift if you feel pain or are not fully recovered. Then maybe do light bodyweight pause squats while sitting back on a bench and/or light kbell deadlifts.

I know the deadlift is very popular on this forum, I love it myself. But you can get strong with other movements, as well. Do what you can. For example, I am having my own personal setback. On Monday I pulled my left hamstring chasing a foul ball playing softball, it was very frustrating. I have a powerlifting meet in 5 weeks! Yesterday I was very grateful that I was able to squat (although the walkouts were terrifying, on an injured leg!). I tried to deadlift. I did a single at 135, some minor hamstring pain. I put on 185 on the bar and it was excruciating, so I went back to 135 and I am doing singles. So I am focusing on my squats and bench press and upper back, waiting for my hamstring to heal. I am still building strengt . Working around my temporary injury.

Good luck to you! FYI, another book I really like is "Gift of Injury" by Stu McGill and Brian Carroll.

Regards,

Eric

 

[NoahMarek]

@Harsh
What were you doing when your back starting hurting in the first place? How hard did that workout feel the day up until you felt the pain?

Back pain is a common experience, and sometimes it just happens due to a combination of factors prolonged sitting, heavy mechanical loading (deadlifts), stress, poor sleep, etc. If this is your first episode of back pain, try not overly stress about it. Meaning, what happened sucked for sure but sometimes sh!t just happens. Just try to be aware of how your body is feeling going into the workout and I would recommend adjusting the day’s intensity/volume based on how you and your back are feeling.

No need to switch away from conventional deadlifts although it may slightly reduce your risk of having another injury by using sumo since it reduces the mechanical load on your back. Regardless, do warm up sets to gauge how everything feels, gradually work back into deadlifting with either type, and listen to your body. Good luck!

 

[Tarzan]

Did you get a scan to rule out an extruded disk or any nerve impingement?

Those symptoms you mentioned can also relate to a sacroilliac issue as well. If you have both a disk issue and a sacroilliac issue a lot of doctors tend to focus on the disk because they have evidence from scans and don't investigate the sacroilliac.

The back mechanic is an excellent resource and the McKenzie flexion exercises are good too, especially for flexion intolerance issues and can actually help to heal an extruded disk.

Some people can do deads with a trap bar after a back problem because the trap bar lifts focus more torque on the knees and less on the hips than a conventional deadlift which makes it easier to avoid any back flexion at the bottom of the lift.

Did you have a good face the wall squat before you started deadlifting?

 

[WhatWouldHulkDo]

I got hurt doing PTTP. In my case, I suspect it was a combination of technique fault, and more volume than I could deal with.

Might ask yourself where you were at relative to you max. 50 deadlifts a week at around 65%, good stuff. 50 deadlifts a week at 80%+, maybe too much.

 

[Tirofijo]

I switched from conventional to sumo in an effort to eliminate back issues. So far so good, but I’m about one more back flare-up from ditching the deadlift for good.

Re: PTTP - I made a programming error when I first ran it. I made too small of jumps in poundage. So when the weights started to get heavy (for me), the jump were so small that I kept going and going and successfully eeking our the reps. But all of that took its toll. 10 deadlifts a day, five days in a row, at or above what was once my one-rep max.

I should have made bigger jumps, “failed” sooner, and done the reset and gotten a little break.

Just something to think about.

 

[william bad butt]

For the last couple years I've been training the squat and deadlift 1 day per week. As flexion intolerant, I dont like high frequency hinging with heavy loads. I haven't had a flare up since I've done this. In fact, I dont feel like I'm even flexion intolerant anymore, I feel normal. Also, my deadlift is still improving

Regards,

Eric

 

[Steve Freides]

@Harsh, welcome to the StrongFirst forum.

For future reference, use the "@" symbol before someone's name you want to notice your message, e.g., @Steve Freides is the way to find me.

You've already figured some things out for yourself and you've gotten good advice in this thread, too.

If you've only been deadlifting for a few weeks and have had a problem, you should look for technical help. Work, in person or remotely, with a qualified trainer, or post a video here. (Put your video in a public place like YouTube then post a link to it here - we don't support direct upload of video, only photos.)

Robin McKenzie's advice about using a lumbar support when seated is, IMHO, what saved me as much as deadlifting did. Everyone who's ever had back problems should read his, "Treat Your Own Back." My first copy was given to me by my back doctor.

The place you want to get to, and why StrongFirst will help you get there, is to have mastered full body tension well enough that, when a deadlift fails, it simply doesn't move or the lift otherwise isn't completed, but nothing bad happens to you.

As to the specifics, if 5's in the DL don't agree with you right now, stick to 3's or less, and just reach the desired volume by doing more sets. The first order of business is to stay injury-free so that you can continue training.

Don't neglect your flexibility. Knowing how to stretch your hamstrings without stretching your lower back is an important part of deadlifting safely.

Yes, test your strength, but twice a year is sufficient. When a cycle becomes difficult, back off and start over, usually with rest in between.

Yes, absolutely see a doctor to understand what's happened.

@Tirofijo, I don't use anything smaller than 5 kg plates on my DL bar, so that means my usual jumps are 10 kg or 22 lb.

@Tarzan, I personally don't recommend the trap bar DL because training it can mess with one's groove for the regular DL. I have pulled trap bar DL's at AWA meets but only recently got the bar - I would do that lift with no specific training and post a semi-respectable number, a bit over double bw generally.

Sumo is a higher-skill lift, IMO. Most people are better served by conventional; competitive powerlifters who also squat may pull more sumo.

-S-

 

[Bucko]

I had a irritated disk. I went to a physical therapist for a while which helped me get back deadlifting. I did not pull from the floor right away. I did rack pulls for a while. Then when I felt like I could deadlift from the floor I switched to sumo because it felt safer to me.