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Barbell Back Squats and Running

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WhatWouldHulkDo

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I know what you're thinking: what, a running thread in the barbell forum? Is he insane?!

In my next cycle, I'm planning to get back into some barbell back squats. Nothing too intense; I haven't done a back squat in years, just want to try to recover some of my old college strength. Figure it will help me jump higher, and sprint faster (along with some skill practice).

But, I also want to keep working my running LED base building - OCR prep. If there's two things one might expect to be subject to the interference effect, I'd think heavy squats and running. I dont expect I'll be doing high enough intensity in either domain to really trigger that much interference... but all the same, I dont want to be dumb.

Anybody else have much experience mixing heavy squats with endurance running? Any pointers?

Thanks in advance.
 
Hi there,
when I was competing in athletics you have to run and do heavy squats(not in the same days).
When we were doing sprints and technical work we never did barbell training.
The days with squat(strength training) started with a little warm-up on the stadium and basic technical work in your discipline. The squat's where never high volume and rest was decent 3-5 minutes. We got pretty good results without burning out. Running(sprints and technical work) was 4 times per week and strength training(squat,bench press, military press) were 2 times at low volume.
So it very possible without breaking yourself. Good luck.
 
Combining squatting with running, sprinting and jumping is VERY effective.

Also you do not need to squat more than twice per week too.

My advice would be to make your hard days VERY hard and let your easy days be VERY easy.

So let's say for example you are doing your heavy squat day Monday morning. In the afternoon you would hit your hard sprint sessions.

If you do your volume squat day on Thursday morning. Then in the afternoon hit your jumps and sprints.

Then follow your regular aerobic threshold work for the rest of your training week.

One addition I found highly beneficial to my sprinting (especially under load) is GHRs. Great for preventing knee injuries (definitely something I experienced myself) and practicing that leg flexion during a spint on flat ground.

In a game of seconds, those extra inches make you king.
 
I would suggest two things based on my experience:
1. The more the volume and the more the intensity the more the interference. This goes both ways. Since LSD is by nature a low intensity/high volume thing, I have found the most success by using squats as a high intensity/low volume supplement. Depending on the frequency you want to do LSD and squat, this can be a simple set up (Monday squat, Friday LSD), or it can be more complicated. I had good success with the following:
  • Sunday upper body + short zone 2 run
  • Monday Off
  • Tuesday lower body + intervals
  • Wednesday tempo run or fartlek
  • Thursday upper body (more assistance minded day)
  • Friday lower body (dynamic effort day) - this was primarily banded speed deadlifts 10x2 and (not DE) front squats 3x5 or 5x3.
  • Saturday - LSD
To be clear, I am not the genius behind this set up, I got the idea from Alex Viada / Complete Human Performance / The Hybrid Athlete. I found the slower you go, the less interference there was. I often dropped the intervals and turned the Wednesday into a medium LSD run - so I'd have three zone 2 runs, a short one on Sunday (30 min), and medium one on Wednesday (45 min), and a long one on Saturday ( 60-120 min). I used this successfully when I was squatting in the low 300s, deadlifting in the high 300s, and able to maintain 10 min miles while keeping my heart rate below my Maffetone limit; sadly that was back in 2015.

Again, I am sharing what I have previously done. I have not barbell squatted and run and trained with kettlebells yet, so I cannot speak to how they'll mesh.

2. People who say you can't do both well may have had that experience but it isn't necessarily "the truth." Telling yourself that you're squat is gonna suck because you're running (or vice versa) is more often than not a self-fulfilling prophecy. Running on sore legs sucks, but minimizing volume can solve that. Your body adapts.
 
I would try to undulate the total load from day to day to consolidate stressors. If you simply alternate squatting and running, it can end up being everyday is a hard day and the lacking recovery causes interference. Also utilize A+A to reduce the polarity between the two.

Something like M, H, L, H, L, M, L. Perhaps make the hard days when you do both, medium days you do one or the other, and light days when you do low volume/intensity of one or the other.

Run
Squat & A+A Sprints
Light run
Squat & A+A Sprints
Light run
Squat
Light squat
 
I know what you're thinking: what, a running thread in the barbell forum? Is he insane?!

In my next cycle, I'm planning to get back into some barbell back squats. Nothing too intense; I haven't done a back squat in years, just want to try to recover some of my old college strength. Figure it will help me jump higher, and sprint faster (along with some skill practice).

But, I also want to keep working my running LED base building - OCR prep. If there's two things one might expect to be subject to the interference effect, I'd think heavy squats and running. I dont expect I'll be doing high enough intensity in either domain to really trigger that much interference... but all the same, I dont want to be dumb.

Anybody else have much experience mixing heavy squats with endurance running? Any pointers?

Thanks in advance.
Pick a sensible split and give it a go. If your runs feel like Herman Munster and bw warm up squats feel like a bear on your back, change it up.

PS. Some good info in previous posts.
 
I live near the Australian Institute of Sport and take note of how their athletes train. I've not noticed track athletes squatting as a rule, but everyone appears to be deadlifting (for low reps)
 
Update: I'm into week 4 of this now - I'm following Tactical Barbell Operator template for my squats, meaning 3x a week, mostly 3x5. And I've been doing long, easy running 3-4x a week (never on the same day).

The first 3 weeks were no problem at all - in fact my running felt really good. But coming out of the 3rd week, I'm experiencing a bit of an energy crash - has been really difficult for me to wake up in the morning to get my runs in. I've missed one for this week, and kept today's short just based on how I tired was feeling. Week 3 is heavy squats (3x3 @ 90%), so it's not terribly surprising - may just be telling me that after heavy week, I should plan for a lower-volume run week. Could also just be that my run on Sunday was harder than it should have been (i.e. too long, too fast).

But, aside from the energy crash, things seem to be OK. I'm not experiencing any soreness in the legs. But I think part of it is also that I'm not pushing the squat that hard yet - this is the first time back under the bar in many years, and I feel like right now there are a bunch of little stabilizer muscles that are acting as the limiting factor on my squat weight - need to keep working to recovery that strength and stability before I get to any big weights.

So... jury is still out.
 
Update: I'm into week 4 of this now - I'm following Tactical Barbell Operator template for my squats, meaning 3x a week, mostly 3x5. And I've been doing long, easy running 3-4x a week (never on the same day).

The first 3 weeks were no problem at all - in fact my running felt really good. But coming out of the 3rd week, I'm experiencing a bit of an energy crash - has been really difficult for me to wake up in the morning to get my runs in. I've missed one for this week, and kept today's short just based on how I tired was feeling. Week 3 is heavy squats (3x3 @ 90%), so it's not terribly surprising - may just be telling me that after heavy week, I should plan for a lower-volume run week. Could also just be that my run on Sunday was harder than it should have been (i.e. too long, too fast).

But, aside from the energy crash, things seem to be OK. I'm not experiencing any soreness in the legs. But I think part of it is also that I'm not pushing the squat that hard yet - this is the first time back under the bar in many years, and I feel like right now there are a bunch of little stabilizer muscles that are acting as the limiting factor on my squat weight - need to keep working to recovery that strength and stability before I get to any big weights.

So... jury is still out.
Two things I've found when I've experienced what you're talking about:
1. Eat more (carbs). When I'm not eating enough my energy crashes with hard training often leading to sleeping through alarms and cravings.
2. Slow down. When I slow down ~5-10 BPM on average, I find my pace drops a little but my recovery shoots up a ton.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Update: I'm into week 4 of this now - I'm following Tactical Barbell Operator template for my squats, meaning 3x a week, mostly 3x5. And I've been doing long, easy running 3-4x a week (never on the same day).

The first 3 weeks were no problem at all - in fact my running felt really good. But coming out of the 3rd week, I'm experiencing a bit of an energy crash - has been really difficult for me to wake up in the morning to get my runs in. I've missed one for this week, and kept today's short just based on how I tired was feeling. Week 3 is heavy squats (3x3 @ 90%), so it's not terribly surprising - may just be telling me that after heavy week, I should plan for a lower-volume run week. Could also just be that my run on Sunday was harder than it should have been (i.e. too long, too fast).

But, aside from the energy crash, things seem to be OK. I'm not experiencing any soreness in the legs. But I think part of it is also that I'm not pushing the squat that hard yet - this is the first time back under the bar in many years, and I feel like right now there are a bunch of little stabilizer muscles that are acting as the limiting factor on my squat weight - need to keep working to recovery that strength and stability before I get to any big weights.

So... jury is still out.
It may not be germane to this discussion but... I'm riding over 15hrs per week these days, with a lot of elevation gain... lots of leg work in other words. I have found that I won't (maybe shouldn't ?) do the goblet squat part of the warmup for S&S.
 
It may not be germane to this discussion but... I'm riding over 15hrs per week these days, with a lot of elevation gain... lots of leg work in other words. I have found that I won't (maybe shouldn't ?) do the goblet squat part of the warmup for S&S.

I hear you - the classic chasing-two-rabbits problem. I have been asking myself, would I rather be capable of an easy 8 mile run, or have 6 miles be the limit of the easy run but be able to jump 2 inches higher? I'm trying option 2 for the moment.
 
@WhatWouldHulkDo I’m doing a similar program at the moment ie Operator plus TB2 basic training. I think if you’ve not done squats for a while they are just plain tiring and will impact on your remaining energy for other things like running. You could try something like a non impact LSD and see if that helps with the fatigue. I’m mixing a ruck, a row and a run each week for the cardio aspect of the program.
 
I started random workouts at the gym this month, only three times so far. I plan to go 1-2 times a week. My strength training shall always include squat and bench. My legs hurt quite a lot, and like always after a break, and especially running, my hamstrings can't take squatting. After 3 months break I'm back in the bottom. I'm just doing some warm ups and two sets in the heavier end, trying to increase weight everytime for now.

I was surprised how well I could squat the day after a shortish 34min steady state run. Running the day after squat has felt really hard for now. You seem to have found your way. I'll try to keep volume of work sets in ten reps for now, see how it goes.

Even when I was pumping iron and then slowly started running and playing soccer it always showed in the results. For me there will always be an interference. But I'm the kind of guy who, when feeling depleted or feeling like an athlete after "lot's of" running, puts some cucumber or tomato on his breafast bread thinking this'll do... (I hope this will spark me into some stretching)
 
I’m mixing a ruck, a row and a run each week for the cardio aspect of the program.

Not a bad idea. Just in terms of getting over the energy hump in the morning, some variety might make it easier to cope with. Less effective in term of developing the skill of running, of course.

Normally this time of year I would be mixing in some swimming, but the pools aren't quite open yet...

Even when I was pumping iron and then slowly started running and playing soccer it always showed in the results. For me there will always be an interference.

I'm convinced this will be true for all but the most genetically gifted folks.
 
Update: I'm into week 4 of this now - I'm following Tactical Barbell Operator template for my squats, meaning 3x a week, mostly 3x5. And I've been doing long, easy running 3-4x a week (never on the same day).

The first 3 weeks were no problem at all - in fact my running felt really good. But coming out of the 3rd week, I'm experiencing a bit of an energy crash - has been really difficult for me to wake up in the morning to get my runs in. I've missed one for this week, and kept today's short just based on how I tired was feeling. Week 3 is heavy squats (3x3 @ 90%), so it's not terribly surprising - may just be telling me that after heavy week, I should plan for a lower-volume run week. Could also just be that my run on Sunday was harder than it should have been (i.e. too long, too fast).

But, aside from the energy crash, things seem to be OK. I'm not experiencing any soreness in the legs. But I think part of it is also that I'm not pushing the squat that hard yet - this is the first time back under the bar in many years, and I feel like right now there are a bunch of little stabilizer muscles that are acting as the limiting factor on my squat weight - need to keep working to recovery that strength and stability before I get to any big weights.

So... jury is still out.

That is to be expected. You have just passed the volume phase of your TB cycle and the intensity will start to creep up.

It will take you time for your body to adapt to this the new stress. Stick with it, eat plenty of protein and get a good night sleep every night.

Your work capacity will increase in time.
 
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