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Barbell Barbell and Martial Arts Programming?

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Wyanokie

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I wanted to reach out and ask the board for advice on integrating barbell programming with martial arts work (specifically muay Thai). I'm currently following a 3-day per week linear (novice) progression as outlined in The Barbell Prescription (Sullivan and Baker) which follows the Starting Strength methods. It is explicitly stated that the program gives enough time for the stress-recovery-adaptation cycle to take effect before it's time for another training day.

I wasn't sure when/how to integrate one day/week muay Thai into the program, and whether I should continue the program until I stop making linear progress on the lifts and then add muay Thai -or- if I should cycle down to 2 days/week and throw the one day of muay Thai in there and pay close attention to how my body feels. Keep in mind I'm practicing active rest on the other days (walking, light hiking, light carries/OS resets, Indian clubs, stretching, etc.) for maintenance.

I'd really appreciate hearing the thoughts of others on this. Even if your barbell practice doesn't align with the one I described, I'm still interested in hearing how you may have integrated barbells and martial arts work.

Thanks for your time,

-W
 
@Wyanokie - There's a lot that changes the answer... How old are you? How long have you been weight training? How long have you been doing martial arts/muay thai? How long have you been running the linear progression?

When they say that it gives enough time for the SRA, they are saying that a novice adapts from a training day in 24-48 hours, and by the next training session they have adapted to the previous session and are therefore stronger. When they talk about adding a training day, my understanding of what they mean is switching to a 4-day upper/lower split - instead of Monday - Wednesday - Friday training the whole body, now you train Monday - upper, Tuesday - Lower, Thursday - upper, Friday - lower (or something similar - lots of ways to organize this).

Are you currently practicing muay thai? If not and you want to stick with Barbell Prescription's plan, it may be best to finish the linear progression before starting muay thai. The way they run the program, it assumes you are minimizing (or eliminating) other training for the duration of the beginner linear progression. You can still use this program while fitting in muay thai, but you will most likely finish your LP "earlier" than they normally encourage (e.g. you will start failing/missing lifts sooner than if you were only training this).
 
Coyotl said:
@Wyanokie - There's a lot that changes the answer... How old are you? How long have you been weight training? How long have you been doing martial arts/muay thai? How long have you been running the linear progression?

When they say that it gives enough time for the SRA, they are saying that a novice adapts from a training day in 24-48 hours, and by the next training session they have adapted to the previous session and are therefore stronger. When they talk about adding a training day, my understanding of what they mean is switching to a 4-day upper/lower split - instead of Monday - Wednesday - Friday training the whole body, now you train Monday - upper, Tuesday - Lower, Thursday - upper, Friday - lower (or something similar - lots of ways to organize this).

Are you currently practicing muay thai? If not and you want to stick with Barbell Prescription's plan, it may be best to finish the linear progression before starting muay thai. The way they run the program, it assumes you are minimizing (or eliminating) other training for the duration of the beginner linear progression. You can still use this program while fitting in muay thai, but you will most likely finish your LP "earlier" than they normally encourage (e.g. you will start failing/missing lifts sooner than if you were only training this).
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Hey @Coyotl , you're right, apologies that I overlooked the background info.

I'm 49 years old, been weight training for about 15 years but never used very heavy weights (highest D.L. 315, highest squat about 200 w/ 180 bodyweight). I never wanted to go beyond these because I always felt like they were 'enough' for my goals. Trained muay Thai for 3 years total (on and off for longer, plus I did some boxing as well). I've been running the linear progression for 7 weeks but am going slow because of an issue with tendonitis that started back in April and just subsided in mid-late August. I'm not currently training muay Thai, but miss the hell out of it and would like to do something to keep it 'fresh'. A side note: I have only done kettlebell work for the past 3-4 years, so this is my first go-round with the barbells since then. Thanks for your input so far, and I welcome any other comments that you may have.
 
Wyanokie said:
Hey @Coyotl , you're right, apologies that I overlooked the background info.

I'm 49 years old, been weight training for about 15 years but never used very heavy weights (highest D.L. 315, highest squat about 200 w/ 180 bodyweight). I never wanted to go beyond these because I always felt like they were 'enough' for my goals. Trained muay Thai for 3 years total (on and off for longer, plus I did some boxing as well). I've been running the linear progression for 7 weeks but am going slow because of an issue with tendonitis that started back in April and just subsided in mid-late August. I'm not currently training muay Thai, but miss the hell out of it and would like to do something to keep it 'fresh'. A side note: I have only done kettlebell work for the past 3-4 years, so this is my first go-round with the barbells since then. Thanks for your input so far, and I welcome any other comments that you may have.
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Anything you add in addition to the program will detract from how far you can run LP. If the goal is to get the most you can out of LP (most being the heaviest weights), muay thai would be a "distraction." Without speaking for Sully and Baker, but that's how a lot of "Starting Strength" crew talk, even if they've since left Rippetoe. I don't think it is necessary to give up other activities (like muay thai), but you do need to be aware that there is a "cost."

Light sparring/technique work would be easiest to add with minimal cost. The more intense the training, the greater the impact to recovery and the more it'll cost you. I would suggest you try to keep the program "Rx" and add a light sparring day 1-2x a week - if once, on Saturday; if twice, on Tuesday and Saturday (assuming a Monday-Wednesday-Friday schedule). The former allows a full rest day before every weight training session, the latter you have a full rest day before 2 of your weight training sessions.

When you do stall out on a lift, I would say you could make one more run at that weight, or make a change based on how you failed - if you failed to hit the prescribed reps in the first set, switch to 5x3 and keep going. If you hit the reps in the first set, but not in the second and/or third, then keep progressing that first set, but then take of 10% and hit two sets of 5. As an example - let's say you hit 200lbs on your bench for 5, 4, 2; on your next session, you'll hit 205lbs [or 202.5lbs if you have micro plates] for 5 on the first set, take 20lbs off and do 180lbs for two sets of 5. If on your press, say, you hit 150lbs for 4, 2, 3 then on your next session take a run at 150lbs for 5x3 and then keep progressing using 5 sets of 3 instead (using 2.5lbs or 5lbs as available). I can't remember if Sully and Baker lay that out in the book and I loaned mine out.

Pay attention to eating and sleeping enough.

I'm sure there's other folks on here who might be able to contribute more, but hopefully that's a start. Don't be afraid to try something, see how it works for a few weeks, and then adjust. Just be aware that toward the end of LP (the last few weeks at least) you will likely feel like crap, your reps will be slow and hard, and sometimes you'll have to grind rep after rep out and it'll be a test of your mental fortitude just to get under the bar for the set. It'll be hard.
 
I've found it takes about a month to acclimate to a new stimulus. I agree to finish the progression you're on first. Next I would consider replacing the barbell with Muay Thai and do that exclusively for a month before starting another cycle of barbell work.
 
Agree with @Coyotl who obviously knows the program. When I did LP at same age 50 I stopped doing everything else remotely stressful, and I do feel like that helped optimize the strength building response. It's a very focused program, but you have to allow all your recovery resources to be dedicated to it, or you won't get out of it what you can, and what it's designed for. That said, you'll probably still get stronger if you keep doing muay Thai and it's and OK template for just general strength building. I say template rather than program in that context because the program requires complete dedication. The template of3x5, 3 days/week, 3 lifts per session can be incorporated into any overall training structure. You just likely won't be able to advance the weight regularly in the linear progression as the program intends.
 
Me personally I'd tell you to run the 2 concurrently.

Your strength is low enough that you can run an LP program and train Muay Thai. All while making strength gains.

Your diet will need go be improved to fuel training and facilitate recovery.

Just know that your progress will be slower due to your age and the lower levels of adaptive energy this will give you. This isn't a problem. Just something to be aware of.
 
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