Barbell Barbell circuits

[movestrength]

It's really hard to tell what your goals are from this routine.

Are you trying to build strength, power, conditioning, skills, or aesthetics?

I would say power and hypertrophy but I also wish to remain adept at strength calisthenics.
I'm not as interested in skillwork or gymnastics.
Skillwork is fun but I would prefer to do a pull-up with a 100lbs rather than a handstand.

I previously did a five to six day bodybuilding split with a lot of volume and time where I went from 180lbs to 225lbs but me and my friend were working out for two hours a day.
It isn't realistic to be in the gym everyday with such a high level of volume as a natural trainer, we would burn ourselves out.

We switched to a 3 day a week routine with compounds, we squatted three times a week and we were seeing our numbers go up on the compounds. I don't want to become a powerlifter and only focus on the major three and maximal strength which is why I would like to also have Olympic lifting and calisthenics as a part of the routine. If we burn out, we could always scale the volume.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't want to become a powerlifter and only focus on the major three and maximal strength which is why I would like to also have Olympic lifting and calisthenics as a part of the routine. If we burn out, we could always scale the volume.

Are you trying to learn the Olympic lifts with the intent of competing?

If so, if may just be easier to take one of the existing O-lifting beginner plans and add bodyweight on off days.

(basically, that's what I did when I first learned them many years ago)

 

[movestrength]

Are you trying to learn the Olympic lifts with the intent of competing?

If so, if may just be easier to take one of the existing O-lifting beginner plans and add bodyweight on off days.

(basically, that's what I did when I first learned them many years ago)

Hmm, I haven't given that much thought beyond looking for fun new types of training.

Powerlifting and strongman events have become extremely popular and it is more common to find a club or group that competes at powerlifting.

It would be more difficult to find an Olympic weightlifting coach to teach the technique in person and there would be more risk for injury doing it in a commercial gym since Olympic weightlifting involves a lot more biomechanics than powerlifting.

An Olympic weightlifter told me that the power clean or the clean and press are moves that can be done by bodybuilders or powerlifters as they don't require as much technique when compared to the more advanced Olympic lifts.

A.
3 x 5 Deadlift
5 x 5 Weighted pull-up
5 x 5 Weighted chin-up
4 x 10 Barbell row
4 x 10 Barbell shrugs
4 x 10 Curl variation

B.
3 x 5 Squat
5 x 5 Bench press
5 x 5 Overhead press
4 x 10 Incline dumbbell press
4 x 10 Weighted dips
4 x 10 Close-grip bench press

I am now looking at this routine for Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.
As long as I can frequently train three major compounds two times a week each.

I am 220lbs and my training partner is 245lbs.
I have noticed Olympic weightlifters tend to be lighter or as you would describe it, they don't have the same size aesthetically as powerlifters or bodybuilders and that is because I suspect that Olympic weightlifting emphasizes how strong you are for your bodyweight or in relation to bodyweight.

I like the power and athleticism that comes with Olympic weightlifting but I wouldn't want to train it as a staple as that may affect my strength or performance on the major three powerlifting exercises.

 

[watchnerd]

It would be more difficult to find an Olympic weightlifting coach to teach the technique in person and there would be more risk for injury doing it in a commercial gym since Olympic weightlifting involves a lot more biomechanics than powerlifting.

I was lucky, in that respect.

I was fortunate enough to be learn the lifts from and be coached in person by Jim Schmitz, coach of Team USA Olympic weightlifting at the 1980, 1988, and 1992 Olympics.

That was about 7 years ago, but I worked with him for my first 2 years.

 

[movestrength]

I was lucky, in that respect.

I was fortunate enough to be learn the lifts from and be coached in person by Jim Schmitz, coach of Team USA Olympic weightlifting at the 1980, 1988, and 1992 Olympics.

That was about 7 years ago, but I worked with him for my first 2 years.

That is incredible and yes, it is difficult to find a coach or even people interested in Olympic weightlifting in a commercial gym.

I will continue to focus on developing strength in the major three powerlifting exercises.
The squat, bench press and deadlift.

For non-competitive Olympic lifting, could I practice and learn a power clean or clean and press once a week while the powerlifting and hypertrophy training or do you believe that would be overtraining?

 

[watchnerd]

That is incredible and yes, it is difficult to find a coach or even people interested in Olympic weightlifting in a commercial gym.

I will continue to focus on developing strength in the major three powerlifting exercises.
The squat, bench press and deadlift.

For non-competitive Olympic lifting, could I practice and learn a power clean or clean and press once a week while the powerlifting and hypertrophy training or do you believe that would be overtraining?

I can't even begin to guess about over training for somebody else without at least knowing how much intensity and volume you're talking about.

Personally, I use a weekly heavy / light / medium day cycle.

But, generally, 3 "big money" exercises (which can alternate) per workout is where 80% of your gains will come from and where most of your focus should go.

Personally, I don't bother with things like 2 different variations of the bench press (or any press) on the same day. I just pick 1 press for the workout, 1 squat, 1 pull, etc.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

For non-competitive Olympic lifting, could I practice and learn a power clean or clean and press once a week while the powerlifting and hypertrophy training or do you believe that would be overtraining?

If you train your O-lifts with either an empty bar or broomstick and focus entirely on technique you can treat it as a practice separate from your strength work. As long as you're not too smoked to hold the correct positions you shouldn't be overdoing it. I'd recommend practising more than once a week (probably three or four) as long as you're focusing on movement and positions rather than lifting heavy.

 

[movestrength]

I can't even begin to guess about over training for somebody else without at least knowing how much intensity and volume you're talking about.

Personally, I use a weekly heavy / light / medium day cycle.

But, generally, 3 "big money" exercises (which can alternate) per workout is where 80% of your gains will come from and where most of your focus should go.

Personally, I don't bother with things like 2 different variations of the bench press (or any press) on the same day. I just pick 1 press for the workout, 1 squat, 1 pull, etc.

Do you do more reps on lighter days or do you go to 60-80% of your one RM?

I have always focused on the major compounds first and after that, moved on to hypertrophy exercises but often extra hypertrophy sets can become fatiguing. Although, you can do a lot of volume when you are having fun and not feel how sore you are until the next day.

Many of the typical routines in Muscle and Strength magazines are bro-splits, focusing on a few compounds but a lot of hypertrophy exercises and often find they are repeating exercise two to three times.

I also started with a bro split and while I saw muscle mass from the amount of volume and hypertrophy, I learned that you can get similar results without exerting yourself so much in the gym.
I will practice a hinge, squat, pull and press exercise and see how my body fares and recovers with less hypertrophy work.

I have now gone from the original 8 exercises to 4 exercises.
Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday.

A.
Squat
Horizontal press
Horizontal pull
Hypertrophy biceps exercise

B.
Hinge
Vertical press
Vertical pull
Hypertrophy triceps exercise

 

[movestrength]

If you train your O-lifts with either an empty bar or broomstick and focus entirely on technique you can treat it as a practice separate from your strength work. As long as you're not too smoked to hold the correct positions you shouldn't be overdoing it. I'd recommend practising more than once a week (probably three or four) as long as you're focusing on movement and positions rather than lifting heavy.

Thank you.

I could practice one day a week and I believe I would build more confidence in the technique as well rather than risking injury or fatigue.

 

[watchnerd]

Do you do more reps on lighter days or do you go to 60-80% of your one RM?

In my case, it's not quite that simple.

I've been lifting competitively for 7 years, and try to compete 2 times a year, so I have a lot of past data to work with. I use bi annual 26 week macro-cycles, with shorter step loaded meso-cycles of 8 weeks duration, that work back from the target weight and competition readiness (including conditioning, bodyweight limit for weight class) I need to hit 6 months in the future.

 

[movestrength]

In my case, it's not quite that simple.

I've been lifting competitively for 7 years, and try to compete 2 times a year, so I have a lot of past data to work with. I use bi annual 26 week macro-cycles, with shorter step loaded meso-cycles of 8 weeks duration, that work back from the target weight and competition readiness (including conditioning, bodyweight limit for weight class) I need to hit 6 months in the future.

Hmm, interesting.

4 Week Olympic Lifting & Hypertrophy Hybrid Routine How about this routine if I wanted to learn the Olympic lifts and still keep up the hypertrophy training? It is a hybrid of Olympic weightlifting and hypertrophy.

Also, is there a book that I could look at while in the gym when doing the Olympic lifts? I have the book Strength Training Anatomy but it is more of a bodybuilding book.

Thank you.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

Also, is there a book that I could look at while in the gym when doing the Olympic lifts?

I'd recommend Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide for Athletes and Coaches but it's a very large book and isn't particularly portable. It's the most comprehensive book on Oly-lifting I've found so far. If you're comfortable reading books on a smartphone or tablet, it's available as an ebook, which would certainly make it more portable.

For less of a 'deep-dive' into the finer points of the O-lifts, Olympic Weightlifting for Sports, also by Everett, simplifies the coaching of these lifts for use in a more generalist athletic strength/power program, with information on how to program for athletes.

There are a number of other books aimed at teaching the basics: Weightlifting for Beginners by Dan Kent and Mihai Ivan, and It's Not a F**king Pull by Michaela Breeze, both published by Powerful Ideas Press, are slimmer volumes and both offer sufficient information for anyone looking to make a strong start in the sport, the latter volume being a little more 'personal' in terms of writing-style and content (in case the title didn't give that away already) and the former is a little more general.

There are plenty of other books on the market, as well as a number of out-of-print volumes (Tommy Kono's Weightlifting: Olympic Style is really excellent but very hard to find) that may or may not be of use. Sportivny Press have published numerous volumes but these are all aimed at advanced athletes and coaches and will take you down a rabbit hole of advanced programming that will probably leave your head spinning.
Vintage texts by Bob Hoffman et. al. offer an interesting glimpse into the history of the sport of weightlifting but are of limited use to a modern lifter (unless you're interested in learning the split snatch and partying like it's 1949).

In addition, there are a number of excellent video resources available so you can learn key aspects of the lift that way. Drop me a PM if you're interested and I can point you towards some material that I've found very useful.

Apologies for for the long and rambling response!

TLDR: Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide... as an ebook would be a portable and comprehensive solution.

 

[watchnerd]

Hmm, interesting.

4 Week Olympic Lifting & Hypertrophy Hybrid Routine How about this routine if I wanted to learn the Olympic lifts and still keep up the hypertrophy training? It is a hybrid of Olympic weightlifting and hypertrophy.

Also, is there a book that I could look at while in the gym when doing the Olympic lifts? I have the book Strength Training Anatomy but it is more of a bodybuilding book.

Thank you.

60s rest intervals between the quick lifts and between the grinds is pretty short if you're trying to actually get strong and explosive.

Some of the exercise choices I would question, like the leg press.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

Some of the exercise choices I would question, like the leg press.

I totally understand doing the leg press as a 'finisher' after squats etc. if hypertrophy is your goal as it allows you to thoroughly exhaust your legs without worrying about getting pinned under a barbell.

It's not going to do much for your strength and oly-lifting, but you can certainly grow huge legs if that's what you're after.

From giving it a quick scan through, this program seems too much like a compromise between developing two very different properties (i.e. power and muscle mass), most likely delivering unsatisfactory results. I would think that dividing oly-lifting training and hypertrophy training into completely separate blocks would make more sense (4 weeks of one, 4 weeks of the other) rather than snatching with terrible form one day because you nuked your quads doing leg presses the day before or having to compromise on volume doing dumbbell rows because you're wiped out from doing power cleans etc.

I'd be interested to see if anyone's actually run this program successfully.

 

[watchnerd]

I totally understand doing the leg press as a 'finisher' after squats etc. if hypertrophy is your goal as it allows you to thoroughly exhaust your legs without worrying about getting pinned under a barbell.

It's not going to do much for your strength and oly-lifting, but you can certainly grow huge legs if that's what you're after.

Front squats would be my replacement choice because:

1. You won't get pinned under the bar (you can dump it forward)
2. Hits your quads more than back squats if you want your legs to get bigger
3. Actually has carry-over to olympic lifts
4. Strengthens the rack position
5. Doesn't risk jacking up your movement patterns
6. Don't have to go to a gym with a machine

 

[watchnerd]

From giving it a quick scan through, this program seems too much like a compromise between developing two very different properties (i.e. power and muscle mass), most likely delivering unsatisfactory results. I would think that dividing oly-lifting training and hypertrophy training into completely separate blocks would make more sense (4 weeks of one, 4 weeks of the other) rather than snatching with terrible form one day because you nuked your quads doing leg presses the day before or having to compromise on volume doing dumbbell rows because you're wiped out from doing power cleans etc.

That's my read.

6 days a week of Olympic lifting with 60s-120s specified rest periods is going to mean the weights are pretty light because neither the rest periods are long enough nor are there enough recovery days to really be using heavy weights.

I wouldn't expect this program to make you very strong or very explosive.

And if hypertrophy is the goal, there isn't really much volume.

It's trying to go too many directions at once.

It looks to me more like "exercise for the sake of exercise".

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

It looks to me more like "exercise for the sake of exercise".

If I were going to be brutally honest, I'd say it looks more like "programming for the sake of website content".

 

[watchnerd]

If I were going to be brutally honest, I'd say it looks more like "programming for the sake of website content".

I noted the recommended supplements for sale to support the "program".

 

[movestrength]

I'd recommend Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide for Athletes and Coaches but it's a very large book and isn't particularly portable. It's the most comprehensive book on Oly-lifting I've found so far. If you're comfortable reading books on a smartphone or tablet, it's available as an ebook, which would certainly make it more portable.

For less of a 'deep-dive' into the finer points of the O-lifts, Olympic Weightlifting for Sports, also by Everett, simplifies the coaching of these lifts for use in a more generalist athletic strength/power program, with information on how to program for athletes.

There are a number of other books aimed at teaching the basics: Weightlifting for Beginners by Dan Kent and Mihai Ivan, and It's Not a F**king Pull by Michaela Breeze, both published by Powerful Ideas Press, are slimmer volumes and both offer sufficient information for anyone looking to make a strong start in the sport, the latter volume being a little more 'personal' in terms of writing-style and content (in case the title didn't give that away already) and the former is a little more general.

There are plenty of other books on the market, as well as a number of out-of-print volumes (Tommy Kono's Weightlifting: Olympic Style is really excellent but very hard to find) that may or may not be of use. Sportivny Press have published numerous volumes but these are all aimed at advanced athletes and coaches and will take you down a rabbit hole of advanced programming that will probably leave your head spinning.
Vintage texts by Bob Hoffman et. al. offer an interesting glimpse into the history of the sport of weightlifting but are of limited use to a modern lifter (unless you're interested in learning the split snatch and partying like it's 1949).

In addition, there are a number of excellent video resources available so you can learn key aspects of the lift that way. Drop me a PM if you're interested and I can point you towards some material that I've found very useful.

Apologies for for the long and rambling response!

TLDR: Greg Everett's Olympic Weightlifting: A Complete Guide... as an ebook would be a portable and comprehensive solution.

Thank you for the books, I will check them out.

The New Age of Hybrid Programs: Thoughts on Combining Powerlifting, Weightlifting & Bodybuilding -

The world is changing for the good. I grew up in a world where weightlifters, powerlifters, and bodybuilders ran in separate groups. There wasn’t a whole lot of crossing over. As a matter of fact, there was quite a bit of bickering about which modality is actually best. Who really is the...

www.mashelite.com

I also read this article which describes both the strengths and weaknesses of each type of training.
The article writer did both powerlifting and Olympic lifting to compete at a Supertotal.
I suspect the numbers aren't comparable to Olympic weightlifters in terms of bodyweight to strength ratios.

Olympic weightlifting from my perspective has a higher entry bar than say powerlifting or bodybuilding which is why I believe that Olympic weightlifting is less popular.
The average person may not appreciate the biomechanics and technique of a clean and jerk without first knowing them.

My first question is, do you believe that Olympic weightlifting has any carryover to powerlifting or bodybuilding?

I have noticed that Crossfit has brought more popularity to the Olympic lifts with more people practicing the clean and press at commercial gyms.
The bench press, squat and deadlift have grown as the bread and butter in commercial gyms and all over the countries while Olympic weightlifting could still be considered a niche with the exception of the clean and press which has grown in popularity due to the likes of Crossfit and Supertotal.

 

[Chrisdavisjr]

My first question is, do you believe that Olympic weightlifting has any carryover to powerlifting or bodybuilding?

Back in the day, Tommy Kono was both three-time Olympic medalist in weightlifting (1952, gold; 1956, gold and 1960, silver) as well as Mr. Universe four times (1954, 1955, 1957 and 1961). I feel like if he'd ever given powerlifting a serious try, he might have done quite well.

Given the state of competitive bodybuilding in this day and age - hypertrophy for hypertrophy's sake leading to some human beings who resemble vascular baloon animals on the competition stage - I don't see any of today's Olympic lifters winning any bodybuilding trophies but that's not to say that there aren't some super jacked weightlifters out there. This holds true for plenty of other sports, of course. Anyone who's seen sprinter Harry Aikines-Aryeety would be forgiven for thinking he was a bodybuilder rather than a track athlete, and he's just one example.

A few athletes and coaches have made the transition from Oly lifting to powerlifting as they got older as it's easier to make progress increasing your limit strength once you get past a certain age than it is to train for power/speed and once you've learned how to explosively lift a barbell overhead, it doesn't take much re-education to figure out how to grind through a deadlift or squat. I strongly doubt that there are any competitive powerlifters who train the O-lifts to improve their powerlifting and the same would apply to Oly lifters training powerlifts.