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Barbell Barbell focused program feedback

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somanaut

somanaut

Level 5 Valued Member
Hello

Age: 42
Sex: Male
Height 178cm
Weight: 68kg

I have been taking a break from SF forums and strength training in general. But now I am back to training and would like some feedback.

I have changed my vocation and now work as an apprentice electrician. Also my partner is spending more time at my place, so I have joined a local fitness club (don't feel comfortable swinging kettlebells with my partner sitting on the couch next to me).

My only serious experience with strength training is S&S up to the simple standard (and a little beyond with the TGU). But I would like to take advantage of the barbells at the gym, hence my program will be barbell focused.

Current plan

Training 3 times a week at the gym (with optional S&S at home 2 times a week if time, energy and alone).

Tuesday-Thursday-Sunday gym.

Mandatory
5x5
Deadlift
Bench Press
Back Squat

Not pushing anything, not reps to faillure. When I can complete 5x5 with a certain weight I slap on 5kg and start over. Probbaly staying for atleast one week on a certain weight. I haven't thought about deloading, since I am nowhere close to my max (1RM or other). So just going by progressiove loading, until I hit a wall, and will need to start cycling, waving etc.

Optional (after mandatory barbell if time that day)
5x10
Curls (of some kind)
Tricep Extension
Calf Raises

Did first training yesterday, I practised for 45min (from gripping the barbell to leaving for the shower). And that is probably the amount of time, that I am willing to spend at a gym (I dislike gyms).
Also I prefer minimalistic training programs.

My goals at the moment are pretty vague: stronger and bigger. Perhaps show up at a amateur powerlifting meet once in a while, just to have a more structured trainning cycle at some point, but that is further down the road.
I am a firm believer in the modus operandi of practise not working out. So getting as much "heavy" training with the 3 main powerlifting lifts are my #1 priority. Again when I hit a wall, I will be thinking about perhaps frontsquats, shrugs etc. But for now just the classics. Also since it isn't a powerlifting gym, that I have joined, they only have 1 squat rack (Smith machine doesn't count in my book) and only 4 barbells, I can't have 6+ barbell exercises, since there is limited availability of barbells, bench and barbells, i.e. I have to do the important ones.

Thoughts?
 
5x5 is the classic compromise for stronger AND bigger but there are better ways to get stronger and better ways to get bigger. Your exercise selection is sound although I always question whether you need deadlift and squat in the same session, particularly if lifting three times per week. I'd alternate deadlift with squat and add a solid pulling exercise like rows or pull ups. And for three workouts per week I'd also alternate bench press with overhead press, so you'd end up with workout A / workout B like Mehdi's Strong Lifts 5x5. Strong Lifts gets criticised for its crass commercialism but on the basis of popularity alone probably more muscle and strength has been built from it than any other program
 
Warm up with a fast circuit of goblet squats, rows, swings, and get ups.

Drop the deadlifts down to a single set and the squats to three sets. Doing more than necessary just increase how much you'll need later on.

I also like cluster sets a lot to use heavier weights and manage fatigue even better.
 
Congratulations on your vocation change and new strength endeavor!

Barbell 3x/week can work really well. Don't try to add "optional S&S at home". Maybe a few swings and/or get-ups here and there, but nothing programmed or challenging. Your stated goal is to get stronger and bigger -- that happens when you recover from your barbell workouts. If you don't allow that quality recovery to happen on your rest days between work sessions (by adding additional exercise on your rest days), it won't work as well.

Why not follow an established program? Even a simple program like StrongLifts 5x5 has some pretty important details to guide you. That tends to work a lot better than making it up as you go.
 
It sounds like you’re ready for a focused barbell strength program.

Your Program:
The Good:
- you’ve included squats, bench presses, and deadlifts;
- you’ve opted for the classic M/W/F schedule, albeit a day early, which means;
- you’ve built-in recovery days

The “Bad”:
- your self-imposed time limit of 45 minutes is going to put too much pressure on your intraset rest periods, and too little rest between sets will blow this thing up faster than just about anything;
- Calf raises, tricep extensions, curls for gurls. Calf raises do nothing, you just did tricep extensions on the bench, and, well, stop worrying about your biceps. Here’s a bonus tip: do heavy double Kettlebell cleans if you can’t stop worrying about your biceps. In general, let the program fix your calves, bis and tris.
- Related to the above, don’t try to do 2 programs at once. Focus. If you want to do a (very) few swings, maybe a random Get Up on a weekend that’s one thing. Nothing that makes you sweat.

The Ugly:
- the thing that derails linear progress even faster than short rests is too big weight jumps. 5 kilos is 11 Freedom Units and linear progress ain’t gonna last more than 2 or 3 weeks if you try that. Your body simply can’t get 5 kilos stronger - especially in a pressing movement - in a week without starting so light that you can’t feel it.
- You don’t need 5x5, especially with deadlifts. You need adequate stress to stimulate an adaptation. Then you need time, food, and sleep to recover and adapt. This period is what makes you big and strong. 3 sets of 5 in the squat and pressing movement followed by a single set of 5 after a couple warmup sets in the deadlift is adequate stress to stimulate adaptation in a Novice.
- Related to the above in terms of excess stress is too much Bench pressing. Any pressing movement compared to a squat or deadlift focuses the stress in much, much less muscle mass. A way to spread it around is to alternate the Bench Press and the Overhead Press.

The Big Picture:
Train S/T/Th
Do 3x5 Squat, 3x5 Bench/Press (alternating); 1 set of 5 deadlift
Start with loads that you can juuuuuuuuuust barely “feel” by starting with the empty bar, doing warmup sets of 5, adding 10-20lbs a couple sets, then maybe just 5 as you sneak up on the load you can just begin to notice;
Do 2 more sets of 5 with that load
Repeat that process with the Bench, and next session with the Press
Repeat again with the deadlift, expecting the final load to be a bit higher than your squat load
Next session, add 10lbs to your squat and deadlift working sets; 5lbs to your pressing movement working sets
These increments - 10lbs for the “big” lifts of squat and deadlift and 5lbs for your Presses WILL NOT LAST LONG. A couple sessions.
Next - cut the increment of increase BY HALF - 5lb for the big lifts, 2lbs for the Presses. If you eat and sleep to support it, this will run for a nice, long time and you’ll be strong when the wheels start to fall off.
 
if you can spend 4 times per week and you like the 5 x 5 schedule, may i recommend Reload? It also has the realistic weight jump between seasons, which i havent' seen you mention...
 
Bill Been said:
Calf raises do nothing, you just did tricep extensions on the bench, and, well, stop worrying about your biceps
Click to expand...
this is not true, you still need the bounce back strength for heavy squat. A lot of powerlifters in my gym recommend daily calf raise and other calf exercise. Same thing with biceps. You need biceps strength in bench press too.
 
1st question: How come Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 gets recommended when they both only do 1x5 set of deadlift every 2nd training session?
 
somanaut said:
1st question: How come Starting Strength and Stronglifts 5x5 gets recommended when they both only do 1x5 set of deadlift every 2nd training session?
Click to expand...

Because you said, "My goals at the moment are...: stronger and bigger."

Best way to get there is to emphasize heavy squats as the main driver of posterior chain strength and hypertrophy. Nothing gets you big and strong like heavy squats. And you can't simultaneously do plenty of heavy squats AND plenty of heavy deadlifts.

But trust me, the deadlift will go up too, even with that little volume. It's like magic. I was stuck for about 3 years ~250 lb deadlift. Emphasizing squats drove it up to 300+ lbs.
 
Anna C said:
Because you said, "My goals at the moment are...: stronger and bigger."

Best way to get there is to emphasize heavy squats as the main driver of posterior chain strength and hypertrophy. Nothing gets you big and strong like heavy squats. And you can't simultaneously do plenty of heavy squats AND plenty of heavy deadlifts.

But trust me, the deadlift will go up too, even with that little volume. It's like magic. I was stuck for about 3 years ~250 lb deadlift. Emphasizing squats drove it up to 300+ lbs.
Click to expand...
Thanks for a precise explanation Anna. I have chosen 5x5 Stronglifts, and will report back on how it goes in a couple of weeks.
 
somanaut said:
Mandatory
5x5
Deadlift
Bench Press
Back Squat
Click to expand...

Exercise Order

If you are going to perform all of these exercise on the same day, a more effective order will be...

1) Squat: The Squat and Deadlift employ essentially the same muscle groups.

Performing the Deadlift first take mores out of your Squat than when Squat first and later Deadlift. Squatting first takes a little less out of your Deadlift.

2) Bench Press

3) Deadlift

As Ryan states, the Deadlift get brutal pretty fast for many individual; more isn't necessarily better when it come to sets and repetitions.

Alternating Exercise Days Solution

Another method would be to rotate the Exercise Order of the Deadlift and Squat.

One training day perform the Deadlift first, the following workout perform the Squat first.

If the Deadlift is first on a training day, you will need to reduce the weight when it comes time to Squat.

One A Week Deadlift Solution

Another solution would be to only Deadlift once a week. Many Powerlifter do this because the Deadlift takes longer to recovery from.

Louie Simmons, (Westside Powerlifting Trainin), "The Deadlift takes more than it give back."

Dr Tom McLaughlin (former Powerlifting/PhD Bio-Mechanics) reinforced Simmons, cautioning that the lower back is easily and quickly overtrained.
 
Last edited:
Google:

Ferris Pavel Faleev

Do that program. Pavel has included several variations to accommodate different schedules in the article.

-S-
 
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