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Barbell Barbell Overhead Press form

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Tall guy Andrew

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Hello all,

I have a question about the overhead pressing form used in the StrongFirst Barbell curriculum.

My barbell training was done by Starting Strength certified trainers. The Starting Strength barbell press actually starts with a forward hip thrust to trigger a reaction in the kinetic chain to initially propel the bar upward, and keep the bar on a straight path without having to move your head back.

I have also read about a "strict military press" where there is no forward hip movement, and the bar is simply pushed overhead in a more diagonal line, or the head is tilted back to make way for the bar.

Which method is used in the StrongFirst curriculum, and why?

Thanks,
 
What you are describing is refered to (by SS coaches themselves) as Press 2.0. They started teaching it somewhere around the release of the 3rd edition of Startin Strength. Before that they taught something closer to the "strict military press", or as they now refer to it Press 1.0. With a caveat that Rip taught to get your breath in during the lockout and then use the bounce at the end of the ecentric portion to help with the start of the lift.

Neither version is better or worse, however it is expected that Press 2.0 will allow to move heavier weight. I use that version during my working sets, but my warm ups are mostly Press 1.0
 
Which method is used in the StrongFirst curriculum, and why?

I've been taught and have practiced both. What @IonRod said above, I agree with.

As to why StrongFirst teaches the strict press, this is my interpretation: StrongFirst specializes in mastering tension for strength. The emphasis is on safe use of tension to build strength. Being able to move the most weight is still a goal (because this is the definition of strength), but moving the most weight in training is not the first priority of the method selected. One StrongFirst standard strictly enforced for the press is "The lumbar spine may not hyperextend at any time." And there may be anatomical experts who can clearly identify lumbar extension from thoracic extension, but myself and other average coaches probably aren't that great at it, especially with a fast movement like the hip movement in a SS Press 2.0. So the safer way is to train the press without this movement.

Worth noting, from the StrongFirst SFL manual, "Push your hips slightly forward so the weight of the bar is projected over the center of your foot" as part of the set-up, and "Some back extension is unavoidable with heavy weights. Bend your upper, rather than lower, back." But with the SF method, you want to avoid any additional lumbar extension during the press itself.

One interesting thing is the SFL manual has an optional dynamic start to "push the elbows back, then explosively forward until they are slightly past vertical." This might be a way to get some of the same effect as the hip movement. I haven't tried or practiced this.

the bar is simply pushed overhead in a more diagonal line, or the head is tilted back to make way for the bar.

As for the head movement, the SFL manual does say "push your head and shoulders under the barbell" but I don't think it's emphasized as much as CF-ers tend to with the "push your head through the window" cue. Basically you just want the head to be slightly back so you don't hit your nose on the way up, and the bar needs to end up overhead, without your head in a forward position. Many trainees will tend to push the bar up to a position that is a few inches forward of where it should be. The correct position is straight over the shoulder joint, which may feel like it's behind you. Conversely a few will push it too far back, especially if their shoulders are very mobile or they're used to doing barbell snatches or overhead squats. You want the bar over your shoulder, shoulder over hip, hip over knee and mid-foot... balanced and supported all the way to the floor. Spending a few extra seconds in lockout will usually help find this position, making sure you haven't arched your back (too much extension) to get there.
 
How much does the hip action help in the press? How much more weight can I move with it? Why would I use the hip action instead of my legs, like a push press?

I think I have managed to develop a decent press and I try to keep it as strict as I can. I agree a certain amount of lean is hard to avoid and goes along keeping the weight in the correct spot. I always try to meet some standard with it but the press is not a competition lift for me so I can be arbitrary with the standard. Also it's not like it's a popular lift and I rarely, if ever, see a proper strict press. But if I go down the rabbit hole of adding movement to the press I am not sure if I end up doing a jerk or an incline bench press in a Smith machine with half the range of motion. Any thoughts?
 
@Antti Using your hips to initiate would add quite a bit of weight, depending on your current level of strength. In terms of least to most weight one is able to lift, the following is a good ear marker

Strict Press < "Starting Strength" 2.0 press (as we've defined it here) < Push Press < Jerk

The hip action is almost like a plyometric in a sense, as it provides some initial momentum at the start to initiate the lift. I would say it's similar to the bottom of a squat if you don't pause; it will be easier to get out of the hole with no pause. Same with the Bench Press, etc.
 
@Antti Using your hips to initiate would add quite a bit of weight, depending on your current level of strength. In terms of least to most weight one is able to lift, the following is a good ear marker

Strict Press < "Starting Strength" 2.0 press (as we've defined it here) < Push Press < Jerk

The hip action is almost like a plyometric in a sense, as it provides some initial momentum at the start to initiate the lift. I would say it's similar to the bottom of a squat if you don't pause; it will be easier to get out of the hole with no pause. Same with the Bench Press, etc.

How much weight are you talking about? 5%? 10%? 20%?

As it is I am strong off the chest but slow down as I near the forehead. Maybe I wouldn't gain as much from the hip action as someone weak off the chest but more speed gets me through the sticking point.
 
How much weight are you talking about? 5%? 10%? 20%?

As it is I am strong off the chest but slow down as I near the forehead. Maybe I wouldn't gain as much from the hip action as someone weak off the chest but more speed gets me through the sticking point.
I think you would need to conduct a fairly decent sized study to say the percentage and even then it would most likely vary depending on the experience/proficiency with both moves and limb proportions.
I don't see such a study being done. Nor do I think there is a study comparing how much a push press adds to a strict press.
 
I think you would need to conduct a fairly decent sized study to say the percentage and even then it would most likely vary depending on the experience/proficiency with both moves and limb proportions.
I don't see such a study being done. Nor do I think there is a study comparing how much a push press adds to a strict press.

It is of course an individual matter. I am looking for individual experiences. I like to think in percentages.

When it comes to studies and sample size we have the Olympic records for both the press and the jerk. I would expect the push press to be somewhere between the two. Since it's individual it's only the ballpark I was asking about.
 
@Antti Using your hips to initiate would add quite a bit of weight, depending on your current level of strength. In terms of least to most weight one is able to lift, the following is a good ear marker

Strict Press < "Starting Strength" 2.0 press (as we've defined it here) < Push Press < Jerk

The hip action is almost like a plyometric in a sense, as it provides some initial momentum at the start to initiate the lift. I would say it's similar to the bottom of a squat if you don't pause; it will be easier to get out of the hole with no pause. Same with the Bench Press, etc.

Great Reply

Very nice breakdown of the Press progression that move the most weight.

Let's add some to it based on The Fundamentals of Special Strength, Verhoshansky, that break Ballistic Movement down into three types.

Strict Press: Isometric Ballistic (minus going Ballistic)

Isometric in this instance means that a movement is started from a dead stop.

With said, in Pressing (any movement) the intent should be on driving the bar up so fast (CAT-Compensatory Acceleration Training) that it goes airborne, ballistic, no matter how heavy the load.

CAT, ensure more of the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are engage.

As per Wespom9, "The hip action is almost like a plyometric in a sense, as it provides some initial momentum at the start to initiate the lift."

Starting Strength 2.0 Press: Explosive-Ballistic (minus going Ballistic)

This mean some initial force is produce prior to a movement; driving the hips, in this case prior to pressing the weight up. It amount go getting a running start.

The Press is an Ascending Strength Curve Movement. Hard at the bottom and easier as you near the top of the Press.

However, the sticking point, as Antti noted is the bar "slows down as I near the forehead".

Research by Dr Tom McLaughlin found the sticking point in the Ascending Bench Press Strength Curve is around 4 inches off the chest. The same is true with an Overhead Press.

Thus, the hip drive in the Overhead Press allows you to generate more momentum prior to hitting the sticking point.

It amount to getting a running start in your car prior to driving through a mud hole.

Push Press: Greater Explosive-Ballistic Force Production (minus going Ballistic)

This amount to providing even more force production prior to pressing the bar; a step up from hip drive.

Again, as Wespom9 states, it provide an even greater Stretch Reflex.

The Jerk: Explosive-Reactive-Ballistic

The Jerk is an complete Explosive-Reactive-Ballistic Movement. You become airborne, splitting, jumping under the bar.

Kenny Croxale
 
How much weight are you talking about? 5%? 10%? 20%?

I've never quantified, and never really done it other than the way designated by SF. I don't do much OH pressing with a barbell so my experience is basically limited to my SFL prep and some presses here and there when doing BB complexes.
 
How much weight are you talking about? 5%? 10%? 20%?

In my experience it just depends how effectively you can put the technique to work. For me, maybe 5%. But others who do it well, probably 10%. That's a big increase for the press.
 
It is of course an individual matter. I am looking for individual experiences. I like to think in percentages.

When it comes to studies and sample size we have the Olympic records for both the press and the jerk. I would expect the push press to be somewhere between the two. Since it's individual it's only the ballpark I was asking about.
In that case, I would say closer to 10% for me personally.
 
Press 2.0 seems like a peculiar choice for a beginner. As I am learning this movement, I am finding I need to focus on good positioning in the rack, keeping tight, and pushing off the lats. Anything else doesn't groove correctly and risks getting stuck around eye level. Moving the hips interferes with all these other things that I am still trying to get repeatably good at.
 
Press 2.0 seems like a peculiar choice for a beginner. As I am learning this movement, I am finding I need to focus on good positioning in the rack, keeping tight, and pushing off the lats. Anything else doesn't groove correctly and risks getting stuck around eye level. Moving the hips interferes with all these other things that I am still trying to get repeatably good at.

Yes, it's somewhat analogous to a kettlebell deadlift and a swing. Some people "get" the correct positions, tension, and effort right away, and can do kettlebell swings without spending a lot of practice deadlifting. But many others (at least half of trainees, in my experience) don't have the fundamentals of a deadlift down, and the swing is not the best way to learn and practice them because it introduces that dynamic/speed element on top of a less-than-solid foundation.
 
Press 2.0 seems like a peculiar choice for a beginner. As I am learning this movement, I am finding I need to focus on good positioning in the rack, keeping tight, and pushing off the lats. Anything else doesn't groove correctly and risks getting stuck around eye level. Moving the hips interferes with all these other things that I am still trying to get repeatably good at.
I agree. On the other hand, on the continuum of the movement complexity (how hard it is to learn), I would rate it harder than deadlift, but still easier than squat and bench. I think as soon as the trainee shows enough proficiency with press 1.0 to get the bar overhead, he can be introduced to 2.0
 
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