Barbell Barbell overhead pressing; pro's and con's of ditching the rack

[Chrisdavisjr]

There is also that horrific variation that they like to teach high school football players where they float the feet out to the sides for the catch.

‘Horrific’ is the word! You see that from poorly-coached CrossFit athletes too. I’ve heard it mockingly called a ‘Starfish’ clean but really it’s just a power clean with poor technique.

I hav always heard Muscle Snatch and Power Snatch equally used synonymously. I would like to know if there's an actual recognized refernce thoug,

Any weightlifting manual I’ve read differentiates the muscle snatch and the power snatch in the same way: The former involves receiving the bar very high with straight legs (and often pressing the bar to full extension of the arms), whereas the latter involves receiving in a partial squat from anywhere between ‘soft knees’ to femurs parallel with the floor and with the arms fully locked out (this possibly being the most notable distinction).

This terminology is definitely used fairly uniformly across the English speaking Olympiv weightlifting community but there are countless other variations of these lifts, each with their own specific applications in training aspects of the competition lifts.

Outside of Olympic lifting there’s less need to be so specific with terminology, if you’re using these lifts to train for power output as part of a general strength and conditioning program for example, so terms like ‘power clean’ and ‘power snatch’ are more broadly applied.

I suppose it’s kind of like how a ‘Larsen Press’ is a bench press but also isn’t, depending on who you talk to.

 

[James Sullivan]

the rack provides a stable place so you can really wedge yourself into the bar and focus on other small details. That's important when you're a beginner.

I don't disagree with this statement, but I also see almost every beginner lose tension after that wedge during the walkout, shuffling feet, taking to many steps, etc.

 

[James Sullivan]

Yep I would agree with @Chrisdavisjr that the power clean has bent legs for the catch in the rack, but above parallel. The feet move from clean stance to squat stance. Same thing but catching with thighs below parallel would be a clean. Muscle clean would have straight legs and the feet don't move.

Catalyst Athletics has an awesome Exercise Library. All the barbell lift variations from an Oly Lifting POV...

Sounds like what I'm practicing is a muscle clean then. Any naming convention change for using the press grip rather than a "clean grip"?

 

[Anna C]

Sounds like what I'm practicing is a muscle clean then. Any naming convention change for using the press grip rather than a "clean grip"?

Great question! That Catalyst Athletics reference says the muscle clean can be done with or without a hook grip.

My coach has me doing a "no hands no feet" snatch variation one day per week where the feet start and stay in squat receiving position and the grip is not hook grip. So, these details can vary based on the objectives of the drill/lift. Sometimes that changes the name, and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[mbasic]

I am unsure about any strict definition anywhere, but as a guy that has lifted for a long time I can say that anything other than a full Clean is broadly referred to as a Power Clean. From locked legs to a slight dip. I have never heard anyone differentiate for a 'Muscle Clean", it has always seemed more like a regional variation of the name - I have seen exactly the same lift described using both terms with no arguments. There is also that horrific variation that they like to teach high school football players where they float the feet out to the sides for the catch. I would refer to is as a Power Clean and everyone would know what the lift basically was, albeit I would be obfuscating the horror of the actual technique. I hav always heard Muscle Snatch and Power Snatch equally used synonymously. I would like to know if there's an actual recognized refernce thoug, I have a few exercises that I don't know the real names of or if they have names.

In Olympic WL circles, muscle cleans and muscle snatches heavily use (and train) the arms to accomplish the "rack" or lockout overhead in the snatch after the normal leg extension is complete (violent lower body extension like the parent lift)....with no dip-down from the legs to accomplish this. Its an actual variant, whereas one of the "metrics" of the lift is to not re-bend the lower body to dip down to catch it (fix overhead) or its considered a cheated or non-successful lift. They goal here is to keep the bar actively close through the turnover phase, strengthen those muscles (arms, shoulders, etc), and straighten out barpath in the upper part of the lift. You get into a whole intent-vs.-effect-vs.-what-it-looks-like argument with these, how they're implemented and appropriately used. Its generally considered an excellent accessory lift.




In general strength training circles, people refer to a muscle clean (or snatch) where the mechanics of accomplishing the rack and primarily coming from use (over use) of the arms .... maybe there IS some dipping of the torso, knees, hips to get under the bar .... but its mostly an active rowing curling motion in the clean ... or say in the snatch, and obvious slower-pressing-out motion that would be an obvious redlighted lift in a WL meet. Maybe "strongman-clean" is term I've used before. Basically these are "anything goes cleans" or "anything goes snatchs". "(power) Clean-any-how."

 

[Hardartery]

‘Horrific’ is the word! You see that from poorly-coached CrossFit athletes too. I’ve heard it mockingly called a ‘Starfish’ clean but really it’s just a power clean with poor technique.


Any weightlifting manual I’ve read differentiates the muscle snatch and the power snatch in the same way: The former involves receiving the bar very high with straight legs (and often pressing the bar to full extension of the arms), whereas the latter involves receiving in a partial squat from anywhere between ‘soft knees’ to femurs parallel with the floor and with the arms fully locked out (this possibly being the most notable distinction).

This terminology is definitely used fairly uniformly across the English speaking Olympiv weightlifting community but there are countless other variations of these lifts, each with their own specific applications in training aspects of the competition lifts.

Outside of Olympic lifting there’s less need to be so specific with terminology, if you’re using these lifts to train for power output as part of a general strength and conditioning program for example, so terms like ‘power clean’ and ‘power snatch’ are more broadly applied.

I suppose it’s kind of like how a ‘Larsen Press’ is a bench press but also isn’t, depending on who you talk to.

I learned something new. I trained with other Strongmen a little, Powerlifters a lot, and Highland Games guys a little. I never had the opportunity to pass time with actual O-lifters. I am cool with refining the terms, I can be pretty picky about terms in my own sport so thanks to you and Anna for letting me know something new. Unfortunately my echnoque actually sucks, the main difference between a pull being a Muscle Clean or a Power Clean or a Continental is completely based on how high the bar get from the pull. I absolutely do not drop under it like I am supposed to and never really managed to learn that trick,

 

[MikeTheBear]

My clean grip is fairly wide and not optimal for OHP'ing.

I also have a fairly wide clean grip. I OHP as an accessory to strengthen my overhead for jerks so I use the same grip for pressing even if it's not optimal.

I do like push-presses from a clean or power clean. That makes sense to me ....

Clean and push press is my favorite combo exercise.