Barbell Barbell pressing

[Tim Swanson]

I had a question about something that @Anna C said elsewhere, and didn't want to derail the thread. So posting it here.

I don't think kettelbell grinds are the best way to increase limit strength. A block of barbell strength training is more effective.

How well do you think this applies specifically to overhead pressing strength?

I'm making the press a main focus for 2020. I'm targeting the half-bodyweight KB press, but I've got a ways to go.

Given that I intend to be at this all year, I've got time to run several different programs during that time. I'm exploring my options. Should I consider a including barbell press program at some point?

 

[Antti]

The kettlebell works great for pressing. But finer loading can be useful at times. Even with a barbell the press is the hardest big lift to load with regular plates, at least until one becomes reasonably strong. Like if you deadlift 200kg it's not such a big deal if there's 197,5 or 202,5 on the bar, but with a 50kg press there's a big difference between 47,5 and 52,5. To a point, this is typically worse with kettlebells.

Even if the kettlebell works fine, I think switching the tool works great to provide a new stimulus with significant carryover. So I think anyone interested in a maximal overhead press with any tool would do better if they used both the kettlebell and the barbell. Maybe with even more lift variety, like the bench press, thrown in.

 

[william bad butt]

I agree with @Antti

If I was laser focused on improving my 1 arm kb press... I would, of course, kb press a couple times a week. Following an approved program. But in addition, I would bench press once a week. I would use the bench press to help build my strength because it is so effective. For example, maybe press 3 times a week. A bench day, a higher intensity kb press day, a high volume lower intensity kb press day. For example.

Remember this 2012 article?

The Best Press Exercise | StrongFirst

Which press gets you the strongest while avoiding injury? Let's look at the possibilities and I'll explain the reasons for my choice of best press exercise

www.strongfirst.com

 

[Anna C]

Yes, what @Antti and @william bad butt said, plus there's some powerful hormonal signaling that seems to kick in when you do a strength program especially when it includes heavy squats. I believe it carries over to improving the press and other lifts faster than they can be improved on their own.

A comprehensive barbell strength program will build a stronger, sturdier you. Then you can go do what you want with it.

 

[watchnerd]

Given that I intend to be at this all year, I've got time to run several different programs during that time. I'm exploring my options. Should I consider a including barbell press program at some point?

Given my sport (weightlifting) requires me to hold 120 kg or so over my head until a judge says I can put it down, here is what I do:

1. Per @Anna C point, I always do my shoulder work on the same day I full body barbell work to benefit from the system-wide anabolic effect
2. I do my shoulder work after my BB pulls and squats
3. I use KB for grind presses for ergonomic, biomechanical, and unilateral reasons. Both standing and 1 sided Sots presses in the hole.
4. I use BB push presses and push jerks for power production, max loading, and static holding. I alternate these with BB snatch balance.
5. I supplement with overhead loaded "carries", mixing it up every workout to something different: overhead BB walks, KB waiter walks, BB rack carries, KB rack carries, KB windmill, KB TGU.
6. Bodyweight finishers and odd object finisher (pick one bodyweight, one odd object ): feet elevated pushups, dive bomber pushups, back bridge / wheel pose, down dog held for time, macebell 360, macebell 10 & 2, Indian club mills
7. Cool down: resistance band face pulls & band pull aparts

3x a week, plus thoracic mobility drills 3x a week on off days.

All of this is enough to overcome my left shoulder torn labrum and right shoulder AC joint damage and dislocation history.

I will also add that BB press is much trickier to do correctly at heavier weights in a way that doesn't jack up your shoulders. The technique is less obvious than KBs, as you have to learn how to put your face through the window and shift your hips as you press.

 

[Tim Swanson]

Thanks for the input. Really helpful. I'll start thinking about how and when I could do some barbell pressing as part of my program.

For now, I'm doing no pressing, as I'm in a ramp-back period after surgery. Just doing getups and swings.

I have a barbell and iron plates at home, but no bench or rack. So I can overhead press, but not bench press or squat. Floor press, maybe?

Once gyms become a thing again, though, my options will expand. I'll keep all this in mind. Thank you.

@watchnerd's point about technique is well taken. I'll probably seek some instruction at some point too.

 

[Philippe Geoffrion]

Pavel wrote an article here called bench to help your military press. Floor press is a fine substitute for the bench, especially in regards to triceps strength which is critical to all pressing.

 

[william bad butt]

I havent done a bench press since my last meet in September. I've been floor pressing instead to build strength.

 

[pet']

Hello,

Interesting comparison between bench and push ups

Benching vs. Push-Ups – The Shocking Science

This new study will definitely surprise you. Check it out. Compared to the bench press, the push-up is often seen as a less effective alternative. After all, bench pressing is hardcore and push-ups are only for prisoners or people without gym access right? Wrong. People have this strange...

www.t-nation.com

Kind regards,

Pet'

 

[Steve Freides]

I find flaws with the study - one group did the same movement with more weight while the other group altered the movement pattern. If one's going to do that, then do it the other way, too. The study had the BP people add weight while the PU people switched to harder variations. Next time, the pushup people could have weight added and the BP people could progressively narrow their grip or something along those lines.

-S-