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Barbell Barbell Rows

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Deadlifts and pullups are different enough to not overdo it, but rows and deadlifts might be too similar.

I actually live in Wichita Falls, Tx and trained with ripp and pendlay and Dr. Lon Kilgore when I was in HS for football every summer. We use the pendlay row the first few sets of our DL warm up... so example maybe rows for x5 @135lbs, x3@185lbs, 1@205lbs then start DLing at 225lbs on up... marty Gallagher has a similar method with his progressive pulls approach
 
I would probably prefer pullups but one of my shoulders is bunk and won't tolerate them.

I've gotten older and wiser so I completely understand this. I am pretty fortunate to be limited on the injury front but I also have been able to learn what my body likes and ends up not liking over time.

Deadlifts and pullups are different enough to not overdo it, but rows and deadlifts might be too similar.

I agree; I will add some rows here or there if deadlifting a lot but don't really push both at the same time.

I actually live in Wichita Falls, Tx and trained with ripp and pendlay and Dr. Lon Kilgore when I was in HS for football every summer. We use the pendlay row the first few sets of our DL warm up... so example maybe rows for x5 @135lbs, x3@185lbs, 1@205lbs then start DLing at 225lbs on up... marty Gallagher has a similar method with his progressive pulls approach

This is actually a rather interesting idea...the way I see it is to get in a small amount of volume on rows regularly which, in theory, should prime just about the entire posterior chain for a pull session. I may give this a shot. Thanks!
 
I would probably prefer pullups but one of my shoulders is bunk and won't tolerate them.
Just occurred to me to add that my shoulder issues aren't really from lifting though at one point early on, I really flamed that shoulder by doing kettlebell snatches beyond my ability/weight capacity. Skateboard crash in mid 1970's then a martial artist injury in the late 80's I think did most of the damage. Still works well enough though. My body is "all original equipment" and hopefully good for another 50,000 miles
 
From Pavel in Beyond Bodybuilding (which I’m re-reading right now, and came across this the other day). That book is such a gem, especially if you’re a recovering, former meathead from New Jersey.

Question: I heard that you don’t like bent over rows. How come?

In my opinion they over fatigue the lower back. BORs do not work it nearly heavy enough to get it strong but surely long enough to tire it out, and thus hamper the recovery of this slowest recovering part of your body. If you deadlift and/or squat heavy, this cannot be good news. Besides, I am yet to see good form on this exercise.

I suggest you focus your back training on pullups and deadlifts and throw in a few rows that do not get your lumbars’ attention, as the icing on the cake. You have three basic options. One is the one-arm row with your free hand resting on your thigh or on a bench. The other is the chest-supported row off a bench that is popular with powerlifters. The third is Coach John Davies’ ‘renegade row’. Assume the pushup position on two kettlebells. Shift your weight to one bell and row the other. Any way you row, let the weight slip forward near the bottom of the movement, then bring it in back towards your waist in an arc.

I’ve personally not bothered with Barbell BORs for years, as I find a standard diet of deadlifts, snatches, double kettlebell complexes, and pull-ups to cover my bases. I do some band work as well, mostly “prehab” type stuff for BJJ, like band pull aparts and Crossover Symmetry.

Great quotation! When I had knee pain and needed to take time off of swings and heavy deadlifts, I was prescribed single arm rows with my other arm on my thigh. So, therefore, if you are not deadlifting or squatting heavy, they might become more beneficial in a program!

I currently am more focused on pull-ups, and I am not sure if adding single arm rows to my pulls would help my overall strength or spread me too thin.
 
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what I've learned to ask when adding or removing any exercise (especially since I'm concerned about health/performance) What is this exercise going to do for me. BB BOR never had any value for me. Kelso Shrugs or Face Pulls each offered something that I needed for short periods of time.
 
Kelso Shrugs or Face Pulls each offered something that I needed for short periods of time.

I just looked up the Kelso shrug, I'd never heard of them before. It's an interesting looking exercise; I'll have to give that a try. What benefits did you experience from doing it?
 
Gave me strength and size in the mid-traps and scapula without blowing my energy wad. In turn, it helped to stabilize both my bp and dl. It also helped me transfer more power into the upper body in combatives/martial arts. Finally, it helped to combat a bit of the hunch computer guy problem...

The bench incline angle will move the work from upper traps or mid taps/lats, always working scapula. ALWAYS focus on that scapular contraction at the end of it. You can go straight up, or roll the shoulder. Play with angles and grips to see what you like/need.

During a cycle of PttP m-f, I would only do the shrugs Tuesdays and Fridays 3 sets at 10, 8, 6 reps with the same weight and with short rest at the end of the session.
 
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I'm partial to the Pendlay row variation for its extra emphasis on explosiveness.


I love the Pendelay style rows. It does take a lot of the load off your lower back and builds some great explosiveness. They seem to be different enough from deadlifts to warrant them depending on your programming. I used them as accessory exercises when doing a Marty Gallagher program and when I did Madcow 5x5 (Actually the program that introduced me to them).
 
Much easier. It is the angle that is the problem. Left arm I suspect has arthritic bone spurs on corocoid process of scapula because the space between it and humerus was already tight and I have gotten very severe impingement and inflammation a couple times over the years. So over head hard lock out with that arm causes intense pain like tooth ache and muscles shut off. I can to light dumbbell presses overhead if careful about rotation and barbell press overhead seem to work at moderate weight, probably because the bar prevents any humeral rotation. So far, rows not a problem.
 
There are a lot of good ideas here. My personal preference is to use lightish weights (something similar to what I BB military press) for moderate/high reps. I like to keep them super strict, too.

I use them with students to reinforce a strong hinge position.
 
Interesting to me--I've been doing trap bar DL's and so when started doing the rows, I used trap bar; have seen youtube vids of people doing that. But w/ Pendlay version, I was running into my butt w/ the back part of the bar and losing quite a bit of ROM. Switched to regular bb and found I had to reduce the weight. Don't know why that was because unlike DL's with rows, the set up vs the weight and angles is the same. Hmmm, one variable though is that w/ trap bar, my hands are a lot further apart than I grip bb, like ½ way to snatch grip, so that could be it along w/ the increased ROM.
Moving your grip just a bit or gripping harder with the first few fingers allows the trap bar to angle just enough (~30°) to not hit your butt & get more ROM. Trap bar allows my hands to come outside my knees & high handles actually get a deeper pull than i could with BB. Plus it allows me to sit into a better hinge than BB. Overall, pendlay style with trap bar can be a good add.

Agreed that feet elevated Ring/TRX/Inverted Rows are great. Works a supine plank too.
 
Nate, thanks. I will have to try the trap bar again for rows. Been using bb lately, pulling it tight to my lower ribs for brief iso
 
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