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Barbell Basic questions on deadlifts

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Abdul-Rasheed

Abdul-Rasheed

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When we say 5x5, five sets of five reps, how does one set of deadlift look like? Is it touch and go? Can it be five singles (not moving away from the bar, taking a second or two rest between reps)? I am used to doing singles with 2-3 mins rest between them. Thanks.

What shoes do you recommend? I have been using a converse chuck taylors and a vibram five fingers. Same shoes work for squats and bench presses too?

Thanks.
 
StrongFirst recommends a quick lowering ("fall with the bar"), and that you stand up and reset before each rep. 5 of those is a set of 5. It might be a new rep every 30 seconds but it might be longer. Be sure you are sufficiently recovered between reps, and don't be a slave to the clock - be sure you are confident in your ability to complete each rep before you even think about starting it. As you become more advanced at deadlifting, other things are possible. If you wish to explore other options, the first thing to do is remove half the weight from the bar and _still_ be very careful.

For some people, 5 x 5 includes warmup work; for others, it just means work sets. See also @Rif's blog on triple progression.

For deadlifting, I recommend bare feet. After that, socks or deadlift slippers. After that, Five fingers. After that, Chuck Taylors, but all these are acceptable options and you should try each and see what you prefer.

Squat shoes are different although Chuck Taylors can work here, too.

-S-
 
I use the rule of thumb from Weightlifting with less than 10 seconds between reps in a set. Anymore and you are getting into a Rest Pause protocol.
 
I did 3 months of "sets of 1" in Power to the People before switching to Faleev 5x5. With 5x5, I wasn't doing touch and go, but I also wasn't regripping the bar between each rep. Anyways, in SFL course they teach you to set up your tension from the hinged position anyways, unlike the quick dip, grip, and rip taught in PttP.
However, the lowering portion would sometimes leave my back feeling tight, so I decided to take 2 seconds on the way down under control and this fixed the problem. When I went back to quick lowering it was better, having grooved the pattern under tension. However, since I didn't mind hypertrophy, I stuck with the controlled (not exageratedly slow) lowering. If I couldn't do the full 5x5 for a new weight, I would go back to quick lowering, but say next week the weight is feeling easy I'd do 1-2 second negative between reps, and this would really help the next weight up feel easier.
 
@Abdul Rasheed

I'm a relative novice and I do it the way Steve outlines above. I don't worry too much about time, but I would say there is never more than about 20 seconds between my reps.

I do worry about trying to do every rep with good form and a flat back. For me that means putting a lot of tension into the set-up and getting it just right.

I usually have 5 minutes rest between sets.
 
Steve Freides said:
StrongFirst recommends a quick lowering ("fall with the bar"), and that you stand up and reset before each rep. 5 of those is a set of 5. It might be a new rep every 30 seconds but it might be longer. Be sure you are sufficiently recovered between reps, and don't be a slave to the clock -
Click to expand...

Cluster Sets

This protocol falls into the category of Cluster Sets; short rest periods taken between individual repetitions (Inter-Repetition Rest, IRR).

It is an effective method for increasing Power and Strength, as well as maintaining and
Developing Technique.

Consecutive "Non-Stop Repetitions

The issues in performing "Non-Stop" back to back Repetitions in an exercise set is a...

1) Decrease in Power Output with each successive Repetition. Repetition 2 is slower than 1, Repetition 3 is slower than 2, etc.

2) You technique begins to fall apart.

This in part is cause by a decrease in...

ATP, Adenosine Triphosphate

Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber are dependent on ATP for movement, muscle contraction.

ATP is "The Gas" for Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber. Once ATP is depleted, the Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber responsible for Speed, Power and Strength are no longer involved. Speed, Power and Strength fall through the floor.

Restoration of ATP

Research (Dr Greg Haff, Mike Stone, etc) found that, "... After 15 seconds of recovery the ability to perform a maximal voluntary contraction was restored to 79.7..."
Source: Effects of different set configurations on barbell velocity and displacement during a clean pull. Effects of different set configurations on barbell velocity and displacement during a clean pull. - PubMed - NCBI

Geoff Chafe;s 10 seconds between Repetitions is an effective Cluster Set Method; physically and mentally brutal.

Short Inter Repetition Rest Periods

Haff/Stone research found that short rest period between each repetition (10 -40 seconds) allow Fast Type IIa and "Super" Fast Type IIb/x Muscle Fiber restoration.

The rest difference in the length of the rest periods between each repetition was dependent on the Intensity involved with each repetition. That due to the fact that there is a direct common sense relationship between Intensity and Time

An increase with Intensity requires and Increase in Recovery Time; which ensures you are able to exert greater Strength, Power and Speed.

The short rest period between each repetition carries over to...

Technique Development

Technique development is optimized when you are fresh.

Once fatigue occur with any exercise, technique unravels with each repetition. That meaning it become a different exercise.

Also, the Muscle Firing Sequence changes.

Take Home Message

Cluster Set Training is a very effective method of Increasing Power and Strength along with Technique Development in a movement.

However, for Maximal Strength, at some point an exercise needs to be pushed to or near failure, infrequently.

The downside to doing that is that it promotes poor Technique in a Lift.

Thus, one of the keys to Increasing Strength in a Lift while averting Developing Poor Technique is to employ...

Auxiliary Exercises

Performing Auxiliary Exercise that are similar in nature to the lift allow you to maximally overload the muscle and nervous system.

The purpose and intent of Auxiliary Exercises is at some point in your training in a set to get the weight up anyway you can.

Employing Auxiliary Exercises in this manner allows you to maximally overload the muscles without Developing Poor Technique in the specified Lift.

Rotation of Auxiliary Exercises

Once and Auxiliary Exercise has been pushed to this limit, it needs to be replaced with another movement that is similar in nature (involves that same muscle groups and has a movement pattern similar to the Lift).

Kenny Croxdale






 
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What is the remedy for grip issues in deadlifts? The grip is giving out, it feels like the bar will slip out of my hands, in the last few reps of my 5x5 program.
 
Abdul Rasheed said:
What is the remedy for grip issues in deadlifts? The grip is giving out, it feels like the bar will slip out of my hands, in the last few reps of my 5x5 program.
Click to expand...

What kind of grip you are using? If it's double overhand, the mixed grip or the hook grip will help.
 
@Antti I use double overhand 95% of the time. Today I tried two reps of last set with mixed grip and it was not slipping. I was thinking I would stick with double overhand as much as possible and use mixed grip only when necessary/needed.
 
Abdul Rasheed said:
@Antti I use double overhand 95% of the time. Today I tried two reps of last set with mixed grip and it was not slipping. I was thinking I would stick with double overhand as much as possible and use mixed grip only when necessary/needed.
Click to expand...

Well it sounds like it is necessary/needed now.

I don't really see the big deal about double overhand vs mixed. I've never had a bar slip off my hands. I use mixed mostly, and DOH every now and then. The mixed grip builds the grip just fine for me.
 
@Sean M I have seen your dead lift videos and noticed that you use mixed grips. I am going to have to do more of those in the coming weeks. Good reminder on the supine arm full extension.
 
I like Steve's idea here. The DOH will build your grip strength more effectively than alternate grip for the exact reason alternate grip allows you carry more weight. In DOH, the bar is trying to roll your fingers open, in alternate grip, while it tries to roll into the fingers of one hand, it's rolling into the thumb of the other. The hook grip is very uncomfortable to learn, but is revolutionary for those of us who hate alternate grip. Plus, it eliminates any concerns about the biceps tendon insertion injuries that are remotely possible with alternating grip. The thing that always puzzles me is people using alternating grip with weights that clearly don't challenge grip - as if "that's what you do" when you deadlift instead of being a weird compromise in body position that just happens to be offset by the greater weight it allows you to move.
 
There is training, and there is practicing for competition. In many circumstances, these two things are the same, but the deadlift is a place where for training, we can strengthen our grip by going double overhand, but if we pull mixed in competition, then we need to practice that, too.

When I do 6 deadlifts per day, I adopt a very simple strategy. Early in my training cycle, I do

double overhand x 2
least favored mixed grip x 2
favorite mixed grip x 2

As competition or max test time approaches, I switch to using both mixed grips equally, and finally as a competition nears, I will begin to do more with my favorite grip because it's the one I'll use in competition.

-S-
 
I agree with @Steve Freides . DOH is fine if I do lot of sets and if a lot of them are relatively light. In my last 10 week cycle I aimed for a big DL PR with only 8 reps a week, and the intensity was high. I didn't use DOH at all for the whole cycle. The heaviest lifts and the couple of PR days were all stronger mixed grip.

For what it's worth, I felt my grip strength increase noticeably during that cycle and DOH feels easier now than with the same weights I used with it before. But I suppose I'm starting to repeat myself.
 
Thanks @Bill Been for chiming in. Much appreciated. I googled 'hook grip', saw some pictures and it looks interesting. I now know it exists and you never know I may be using it one day.
 
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