Barbell BB Program Advice

[SolidBrawn]

Fellow Students of Strength,

For the last 3+ years I've been focusing primarily on bodyweight skills for several reasons (lots of moving, living 45+ min away from nearest gym, etc.), but this past week I've gotten a membership at a local fitness studio, where I can finally start practicing Deadlifts, Squats, and Presses again!

Concerning programming, I've considered the following:
A Day: Mon/Fri
1. Deadlift
2. Press
3. Pull-up (weighted)

B Day: Wed
1. Squat
2. Bench Press
3. Row

A done 2x a week and B done just once. As far as loading/rep schemes go, for the Deadlift and the Squat I was thinking a Russian Bear style of working up to a 5RM (but only done for 3 reps) for a single set, then dropping to 90% of 5RM for a single set of 3, and then to 80% of 5RM until the cows come home. For the other two lifts I was thinking of doing something like a 5x5? (Probably saves a bit of time, and provokes a bit more hypertrophy).

Goals: Strength first, hypertrophy second.

Yesterday I tried out the lifts for the first time in 3+ years and I was a bit timid and didn't want to overreach for the first time practicing in such a long time. Here's what I got:

Deadlift: 130kg (for 3 reps, could've gotten to maybe 7 or 8?)
Squat: 90kg (also 3 reps, could've gone a bit heavier and probably felt like a 5-7RM at this weight)
Press: 50kg ( 3 reps, probably also could've done 5-7)

Questions:
1. How does the programming look? (pro's/con's ... Brian, don't quit your day job)
2. How about progression? Is 5-10kg per Training session too ambitious?

 

[Hasbro]

Are you familiar with Wendler 5/3/1? I started out not being able to deadlift 300lbs or backsquat 225 but a year later I could DL 450 and back squat 305. I'm sure there's lots of other great programming out there but that's the only one I'm familiar with and it definitely works. 10kgs per training session seems too much to me. You can ride the newbie gains for a little while but you'll max out pretty quick at that rate.

 

[Steve Freides]

1. The programming is original and specific to you. Try it, and let us know how it works out for you. Don't be in a hurry to move to big weights, just keep making steady progress and stop increasing the weight whenever you feel you need more time to adjust to a recent change.

2. Progressing every training session can be overly ambitious for any experienced lifter, but if you've been out of it for a while, you might be able to get away with that. My preference would be for you to follow a proven program rather than creating your own, and use the program's guidance for your weight selection.

-S-

 

[SolidBrawn]

Very sensible advice @Steve Freides thanks, and I think you're right with #2. Time to peruse Beyond Bodybuilding again.
@Hasbro thanks for the tip I'll look into it further!

 

[Antti]

As it is the lift selection looks good to me, at least if you keep the pull-ups and rows light. Though some people find it better to squat twice and deadlift once a week instead of your plan.

Why do you want to do the Bear-light-stylized plan for the lower body if strength is your priority? I would expect you to get a significant amount of mass with a simple 3-5*3-5 plan. I don't think it would be a bad idea to do the 3-5*3-5 until you get to some heavier weights and then do the Bear as written.

It's really hard to comment on the speed of progression. It could be a good idea to get two or three weeks of lifting and trying the plan out and increasing the load based on feel. After that you should be more qualified to know how fast you could progress. The progression speed also depends on the time frame of the program. A 10kg increase twice a week would mean some World records in quite a short time.

 

[william bad butt]

Instead of deadlifting twice a week and squatting once, consider alternating A and B every workout.

 

[damogari]

If you want to train two times a week you can take a look at Tactical Barbell program, especially Fighter template. You choose 2-6 lifts and do them every session, its recommended to do DL once a week, you can do it alternatively with weighted pull ups. I would use Press, Squat, Bench, DL/WPU cluster, you can add Rows if they important for you. Program calls for 3-5 sets of each exercise. You do sets of 5 with 75% RM in weeks 1 and 4, sets of 5 with 80% RM in weeks 2 and 5, sets of 3 with 90% RM in weeks 3 and 6. Test your max every 6 or 12 weeks.

EDIT:

I misread your post and now I see thats a three times a week program. This way you can use the Operator template which is the same lifts three times a week, it is recommended to do 3 main lifts. You can do Squat/Bench or Press/WPU, doing DL instead of WPU once a week. The programming looks like this:

• Week 1: 70% 3-5 x5 (each lift)
• Week 2: 80% 3-5 x5
• Week 3: 90% 3-5 x3
• Week 4 75% 3-5 x5
• Week 5 85% 3-5 x3
• Week 6 90% 3-5 x1-2

Every 6-12 weeks you can test 1rm.

 

[Kettlebelephant]

- You're using the main 6 barbell exercises.
- You're asking about advise on your programing on a forum -> you're not confident in your own ability to create a routine.
- You want strength first, but some added hypertrophy wouldn't bother you.
- Your numbers are not advanced -> no need for very complex, personalized programing

Why not just go for one of the various routines that stood the test of time (and thousands of trainees), that are exactly in line with your goals (strength first, hypertrophy second), fit your selection of exercises and your "lifting level"?
Starting Strenght, Greyskull LP, Stronglifts 5x5, Bill Starr's 5x5, 5/3/1 Beginner, Tactical Barbell, ... There are so many of them.
Just pick the one you like the most (e.g. Greyskull has less squatting than Starting Strength) and do it instead of coming up with your own thing, despite having no background/experience in program designing.

This shouldn't sound harsh, just honest advise.

 

[JeffC]

I would not recommend Russian Bear for you. It is not for someone coming off a three year layoff. Bear or not to Bear. Do not modify or combine with other stuff. It is plenty of work on its own. 20-25 sets of 5 is tough and will take all your recovery capacity to keep up with demand. It's an awesome Hard Work program.

Stick to a basic barbell core lift program with *some* assistance or correctives build in.

 

[coolrunnings]

Are you familiar with Wendler 5/3/1? I started out not being able to deadlift 300lbs or backsquat 225 but a year later I could DL 450 and back squat 305. I'm sure there's lots of other great programming out there but that's the only one I'm familiar with and it definitely works. 10kgs per training session seems too much to me. You can ride the newbie gains for a little while but you'll max out pretty quick at that rate.

Wow, great results. Which version did you follow? Did you gain any mass?

 

[Hasbro]

Wow, great results. Which version did you follow? Did you gain any mass?

I used the original 5/3/1. Once the bench press got up to 230lbs I had to cut that part of it out because of shoulder issues. For the next 6 months I only did deadlifts and low back squats one day a week each with none of the supplemental excercises. I didn't gain "bodybuilder" type mass but I did have to buy new clothes. All the guys at work were accusing me of being on steroids and wanted to know what I was doing. I said it's easy......lift heavy-a#@ weight.

 

[Zack]

Hey Brian, congrats on getting back into the lifting game!

I have a couple ideas, but answers to a few quick questions could provide some more context:

If you don't mind me asking, what is your bodyweight?
How do those initial training numbers compare with all time bests?
Is a 4-5 day per week training schedule a possibility?

 

[MikeTheBear]

I also recommend not doing the Bear program given that your goal is strength not mass.

Given that you tested the lifts you have some idea, or at least you can estimate, what your 1 rep max is in each lift. I also highly recommend Wendler's 5/3/1. It lays out an overall template to follow but has built in autoregulation.

 

[JamesO]

I'm always a believer in learning and understanding the principles behind things and don't think it's absolutely hogwash to put something together for yourself. Afterall, that's what these named programs are, only with branding. Over time you'll gain experience and understand what works for you over the long run and what doesn't. For example, I know I do much better doing one main lift per workout followed by assistance work as opposed to doing the two to three main lifts often called for in programs like Starting Strength, Greyskull, and various 5x5's. I also do better adding weight slowly over time as opposed to automatically putting on more weight with each workout.

If you can find @Rif 's article on the triple progression system, it's fantastic. I've learned so much from following Rif for the past few years, and the triple progression has been great for me.

At the end of the day, we know we have to increase volume or intensity over time, or both, in order to get stronger (progressive overload), so just find a way to do that in a way you can sustain, and you'll be set.

I currently deadlift, squat, and press once per week. I use the 5/3/1 progression on my deadlifts because I enjoy higher intensity there, and Mark's triple progression for squat and press because it does such a great job building a base.

Rif's article is really good at explaining how the triple progression works, but one thing I'm really intentional about is not adding more weight until I'm getting all my reps across all my sets with decently consistent bar speed. i.e., if I get three beautiful reps during each set, but really grind out the fourth and fifth, I'll stay at that weight another week. I have the rest of my life to get stronger, and I'd rather know I've done a good job developing my base than race forward.

More specifically, this is what my program looks like right now. I actually just hit a lifetime PR in the deadlift last week. "Medium weight," means a weight that gets challenging but only slows down the last rep or two and leaves a handful left in the tank.

Mon:
- Main lift: Deadlift (5/3/1)
- Assistance: 3x8 superset of KB front squats and hip thrusts with a medium weight or more of a conditioning focus by doing a ladder of 5-10 KB snatches followed by 10 goblet squats and a plank. 5 sn, 10 sq, plank. 6 sn, 10 sq, plank. 7 sn, 10 sq, plank. The main idea in either is to get higher volume KB squats in following the deadlifts. If conditioning, intensity stays on the low-medium side. Focus is on quality movement.

Tues:
- 30 min of easier, sustainable conditioning. Lately I've been doing hills on an elliptical. I shouldn't feel this the next day.

Wed or Thurs:
- Main lift: Front sq. (5x5, triple progression)
- Assistance: 8 kickstand deadlifts on each leg between sets of squats w/medium weight.
- Conditioning: 10-15 minutes of something. I have a number of them in a note on my phone. One of my favorites is: 1 rope climb, 10 swings per arm, 10 crunches on the decline bench or a bear crawl up and down the floor. This is meant to be medium intensity.

Sat or Sun:
- Main lift: Military Press (5x5, triple progression)
- Assistance: 5x10 superset of barbell rows and something called a JM press with medium weight.
- Conditioning: Prowler. I've been working up to 10x40 yard sprints with bodyweight. I'm currently at 8. This is meant to be high intensity.

 

[SolidBrawn]

Thanks for all the great input. For the past 3 weeks I've been doing Greyskull LP (phrak's variant) with some solid noob gains.
@JamesO awesome stuff, man.
@Zack thanks. With all time bests I couldn't really say. The BB work I did those 3+ years ago was more crossfit-style (pre-programmed weight for the WOD). Squats were definitely stronger though.