Barbell Becoming Stronger (Weeks 40 - 60)

[william bad butt]

I rarely have anything going on that would be interesting to this forum. My training is boring. Effective, but boring. I thought I would share the general training plan I am doing, maybe it will give somebody some ideas. Still following the 10/20/Life plan (Brian Carroll is helping me program and I video my lifts for his advice) and still enjoying KB snatching (more Q&D now, not A&A). I like Q&D because the workouts are shorter, no other reason. I still do 1 A&A session per week, the others are Q&D. I think it's important to train the snatch heavy at least once per week

I started doing this after my powerlifting meet late last year (week #1). Well, actually, I've been following this basic program strategy for a while now (years). Currently in Week #44. Years past, I used to alternate barbell programs with double kb programs. This worked fine and maybe one day I'll go back to this. But I have had so much success following this plan that I've stuck with it for years. Every 10 weeks or so it gets tweaked, swapping out some excersises... For the most part, my programming is simple, 5x5 for example. Maybe walk up the weight and reduce the volume. Then over weeks bring the volume back up at the new weight. Repeat over and over again. DELOAD often, about once per month. Deload is typically very low volume (usually singles) at ~50% intensity.

I should say my goal is to get strong, be somewhat "conditioned" (I'm not going to run a marathon but I love hiking), be healthy, not let my weight creep up like it has the last decade, and stay lean (dont get fat). I have no plans to compete in powerlifting until deep 2021.

Friday (squat/deadlift training)- 5-10 min warmup (very specific to my needs and issues but includes McGill excersises and light kb waiter walks and goblet squats), barbell front squats, sumo deadlifts, SSB (safety squat bar) box squats, sandbag Carrie's and presses (125 and 200#), Side Planks, Farmers Walks.

I haven't done front squats or sumo deadlifts in a very long time (decade?). I'm terrible at them. I put 225lb and did 5x5 front squats my 1st week. My abs screamed at me for a few days. I've never had DOMS in my abs before!!! Very unpleasant.

Saturday - Reverse straight bar curls (yes I do curls! Not for vanity reasons), Q&D Snatches, Sand Bag Carrie's, LOOONNGGG WALK

Sunday - Off

Monday (Bench Press Day. : ) )- 5-10 min Warmup, Barbell Floor Presses (I'm in love with this excersise, it is the best press, I'm convinced!), double bottoms up KB floor press, Standing bottoms up 1 arm KB press, DB side laterals, DB skull crushers, Sand Bag Presses and Carry's, Side Planks, Farmers Walks

Notice all the bottoms up KB work. I am noticing 2 things: (1) Great full body integration and core training, (2) Teachi g me to CRUSH the handle which carry's over to my other lifts

Tuesday (accessories) - Warmup, McGill Pullups, Barbell shrugs, Pause Wide stance goblet squats with 24kg kb, hamstring curls, Heavy KB Snatch workout via A&A principles, Sandbag Holds, Front planks, farmers walks

Wednesday (more accessories)- I always skip the warmup on this day, Light bench press singles (explosive, dynamic), standing bottoms up KB press with 1 arm, KB Q&D snatch, DB hammer curls.

Sometimes I skip this workout and just do the KB Q&D by itself. I dont worry about it. It just depends on how busy I am with other things.

Thursday - Off

Everyday - At least 1 short walk but try to do more, lots of sleep, TRY to eat clean (I'm not perfect). I probably eat as much as 2 people (exaggerarion)! I eat carbs. Avoid alcohol but not afraid to drink a bit every few weeks in social settings. Few supplements. A few times per week a protein shake. I drink BCAA during a few workouts. Lots of whole chocolate milk!

Every 20 weeks I test my strength (not always to limit, 90+%). I am certainly getting stronger. At 40, it feels like I'm 20 all over again! Since the pandemic, working from home (home gym), I've really been able to focus!

Thoughts or ideas welcome! : )

Regards,

Eric

 

[Steve A]

Eric, actually I've been interested in your program for a while. I have the 10/20/L books, am unclear on how to interpret the cycles. Some of your previous posts have added to my doubting my own interpretations. Perhaps you could clarify? 5 x 5 with one top set at 6 RPE or 60%, followed by 4 x 4 with one top set at 7 RPE or 70% the next week - how do you execute these? Would you be willing to show typical days? At least based on the book, would not want you to reveal any private programming.

I think floor presses are great too.

 

[Oscar]

Nice! So its basically a squat & deadlift day, a bench day, 2 Q&D snatches days, 1 A+ A snatch day, plus a bunch of accessories?

If I recall correctly you have been powerlifting for several years, so I assume that the DL, squat and bench sessions are pretty intense, I. Particular since you do them once per week.

 

[Anna C]

Barbell Floor Presses (I'm in love with this excersise, it is the best press, I'm convinced!)

What does the barbell floor press have over the barbell bench press?

 

[william bad butt]

Eric, actually I've been interested in your program for a while. I have the 10/20/L books, am unclear on how to interpret the cycles. Some of your previous posts have added to my doubting my own interpretations. Perhaps you could clarify? 5 x 5 with one top set at 6 RPE or 60%, followed by 4 x 4 with one top set at 7 RPE or 70% the next week - how do you execute these? Would you be willing to show typical days? At least based on the book, would not want you to reveal any private programming.

I think floor presses are great too.

Steve,

If you follow the book precisely, you cant go wrong. I've done that many times. Brian does all of my programming right now. It is very similar to the book, just slightly customized to me and my performance the week prior. For example, if I've been progressing well for a few weeks and lifts are slowing down, time for a Deload. Here is an example of my training log... The Squat... Take a 500 lb squat max, which is about where my max was which this was based on (from my training log):

-week 26 = 5x5 (sets x reps) 1 top set RPE 7 (so 70% of 500= 350 lb)
-week 27 = 5x5 2 top sets RPE 7
-week 28 = 7x1 (all top sets) RPE 5 Deload
-week 29 = 10x1 (all top sets) RPE 7
-week 30 = 8x1 (all top sets) RPE 8
-week 31 = 8x2 (all top sets) RPE 8
-week 32 = 7x1 (all top sets) RPE 5 Deload
-week 33 = 3x5 (1 top set) RPE 8
-week 34 = 7x1 (all top sets) RPE 5 Deload
-week 35 = 3x5 (2 top sets) RPE 7
-week 36 = 3x5 (3 top sets) RPE 8 (after week 36, we decided to try and peak for week 40, it was complicated with some personal travel I had... so the plan wasnt ideal (always under train vs over train when peaking!!!!!)
-week 37 = 3x1 (all top sets) RPE 7.5
-week 38 = 7x1 (all top sets) RPE 5 Deload
-week 39 = 5x2 (1 top set) RPE 8
-week 40 = Singles up to RPE 9.5. I ended up going heavier than 95% of old max. I set a PR without really straining. An easy training max! My new real max may be 105% (this is way better than I hoped and I dont expect this every cycle) of my old max, which I will realize one day at a meet. I dont want to waste time peaking from 95% to 100+%. I'd rather focus on the base and get stronger.

In the book, when you read 5x5 this means 5x5 at the given RPE or percentage. Only do 1 top set if it specifically calls out for it.

For me, RPE 7 = 70%, RPE 8 = 80%, etc... I rarely deviate from this. But 1 common thing I do is this:

Week X: 5x5 RPE 6 (60% of 500lb = 300 lb).
Week X+1: 4x4 RPE 6... So I might now do 310 lb and use this for my future programming with RPE. So if 310 is now RPE 6, then RPE 10 should be 310/0.6 = 517 lb. So I know that in about 10-20 weeks or so I'll be lifting 517, not 500. I must be careful not too add too much or this can get away from me. This is something that I do, not necessarily in the 10/20/L system. But I try to hit PR's where it makes sense (and not get greedy). I dont fail lifts. I've never missed since starting this method. I only missed a bench press rep at a meet (and I only missed on a technicality, I made the lift). I video tape to ensure my form is good (and have Brian review).

Dont worry too much about the minutiae. The key is consistency and building strength long term. Start easy (low volume and low intensity) and slowly build up. I hope this makes sense. I'm still amazed that I'm still making substantial progress with a fairly experienced "training age". Reach out if you have more questions. Or for an even more advanced help contact Brian. I think he still does a weekly Instagram Q&A on Wednesdays at 1pm.

Regards,

Eric

 

[william bad butt]

Nice! So its basically a squat & deadlift day, a bench day, 2 Q&D snatches days, 1 A+ A snatch day, plus a bunch of accessories?

If I recall correctly you have been powerlifting for several years, so I assume that the DL, squat and bench sessions are pretty intense, I. Particular since you do them once per week.

You got it! I like this template. Some times I combine the squat/deadlift day and bench press day into 1 training day (called JUMBO day, lol). I like doing this when preparing for a meet, an annual thing for me, gets me used to doing all 3 lifts in the same day (very exhausting when maxing).

I dont think my workouts are that intense. For example, 5x5 in the front squat, sumo deadlift, and box squats. The squat/deadlift workout can take a while if going heavy, I take long breaks.

Accessories have a purpose. Nothing is done for just the sake of doing it.

I love Q&D because it is minimal and fast. I go light. 24 or 28 kg. I snatch the bell downward ferociously!!! . For my 1 A&A day I use the 40 kg bell (I dont own a 44 and I'm not ready for 48). My A&A workout takes a while. I rest a lot between sets (1+ min).

So in summary: 1 (or 2) pure strength days, Q&D or A&A snatching, and a few days of aerobic work. For me this is dairly walking. I also do lots of farmers walks and sandbag work but this is probably more anaerobic.

Regards,

Eric

 

[william bad butt]

What does the barbell floor press have over the barbell bench press?

I'll give you a list. But overall, I like it because for whatever reason, I am making newbie progress/gains and they seem to carry over to my bench. List:

-Bench is technical (more than people realize). Floor press has less focus on neurological improvement and just builds muscle strength.
-More focus on triceps, which I think is a weak point for me and most intermediate benches
-No leg drive and less arch, allows for more upper body hypertrophy
-my bench press has a fairly big arch for a 230 lb guy. So my floor press range of motion isnt that much less than my bench range of motion.
-When I fail the bench, it is not on my chest. It is 1-2 boards above, during the transition of my triceps taking over the chest muscles (I hope this makes sense, I realize they are all firing at the same time). Floor press pauses right at this spot. Note my bench and floor press grip... My pinky fingers are on the outer ring.
-More fun! I dont have to setup the bench and contort myself into position (bench press is uncomfortable). I dont have to wear my lifting shoes or belt.
-Less stressful on shoulders (not a factor for me).

Obviously, if I was going to compete I would need to practice the bench press. I would bench at least 10 weeks out, probably 20. To me, the floor press is more of a pure strength movement.

To me, the floor press is to the bench press as the overhead press is to the push press. I'm curious of others have noticed this.

Regards,

Eric

 

[Steve A]

-week 26 = 5x5 (sets x reps) 1 top set RPE 7 (so 70% of 500= 350 lb)
-week 27 = 5x5 2 top sets RPE 7
...
In the book, when you read 5x5 this means 5x5 at the given RPE or percentage. Only do 1 top set if it specifically calls out for it.

Sorry Eric, I'm dense. It is the execution of the individual days that has me confused, not the weekly changes.

To me, 1 top set means only 1 set at the top weight. So on week 26, are you doing 5 x 5 working up to 1 set at 350 x 5? 135 x 5, 225 x 5...350 x 5? And then on week 27 doing one less warmup set to get to 350 x 5 x 2?

And isn't RPE here being used a bit differently than elsewhere? More tuned to intensity than to how much more could be done in a set?

Thanks for your patience!

 

[william bad butt]

To me, 1 top set means only 1 set at the top weight. So on week 26, are you doing 5 x 5 working up to 1 set at 350 x 5? 135 x 5, 225 x 5...350 x 5? And then on week 27 doing one less warmup set to get to 350 x 5 x 2?

Yes, you got it. For me if I was doing 5x5 1 top set at 350 lb it would be: bar x1, 135 x1, 185 x5, 225 x5, 275 x5, 315 x5, 350 x5. With 2 top sets I'd do the same but only do 185 x1 and 350 x2x5.

And isn't RPE here being used a bit differently than elsewhere? More tuned to intensity than to how much more could be done in a set?

Yes, I think you are probably correct. I don't over complicate RPE. It is the same as percentage except you can deviate based on how you feel. For example, say you are lifting in a new gym (on vacation) and it's an odd barbell or something is off, or you have a mild cold or a mild muscle strain and want to go lighter.

Personally, for me, it is just percentage. Makes it simple and I don't have to deviate. If I went off how I feel I would be lazy and sandbag. I don't want to give myself an excuse to ease up. But that is just me. Also, I don't want to waste brain cells over thinking this. Here is how I use it. Say I am doing front squats. I haven't done these in many years. I have no idea my strength. Week 1 I may go easy and do 200 lb 5x5. Ill aim for RPE 6 or feels like 60% Intensity. Next week if I went for RPE 7, I would do 200 * 7/6 or 233.5 lb (yes I use fractional plates, they are not pink). My theoretical max, based on Week #1s info is 200lb * 10/6 or 333.5 lb. Now this is not very accurate in the beginning, but over time I am able to make adjustments and add weight to get a sense of what my max truly is. By week 7 or 8 I have a very good idea how much I can front squat. I only make adjustments up, not down (not that there is anything wrong with that) because I always start very conservatively.

I realize this is a bit of an art. If you are the type that likes structure and defined rules, just treat it as a percentage. Even if you under estimate your strength (use 200 lb when the your actual strength at 6RPE is 230 lb), you will eventually get there. It is an iterative process.

Regards,

Eric

 

[william bad butt]

And isn't RPE here being used a bit differently than elsewhere? More tuned to intensity than to how much more could be done in a set?

Yes. 6 RPE for a top set of 5. To me (in 10/20/L terminology) this just means 60% of my max for a top set of 5 reps. I may be capable of doing it for 20 reps. That's not the point though. It's not about grinding yourself into the ground.

Eric

 

[Antti]

I find the notes strange.

Instead of 5*5 200 why not just say 1*5 200 if you only do one set with 200?

Also, why say RPE 6 to mean 60% instead of just, well, 60%? RPE does mean something else, right?

 

[LukeV]

What does the barbell floor press have over the barbell bench press?

I use the barbell floor press because it is much more shoulder friendly - the floor stops the elbows going behind the shoulder which, particularly under heavy load, is a key source of shoulder stress/injury. (Board press is a similar way of avoiding the same position - elbows back and under load.) Floor press has other benefits as Eric outlined

 

[william bad butt]

I find the notes strange.

Instead of 5*5 200 why not just say 1*5 200 if you only do one set with 200?

Also, why say RPE 6 to mean 60% instead of just, well, 60%? RPE does mean something else, right?

In the book, RPE 6 I essentially 60%. Except you can add or subtract weight based on how you feel. For me, personally, RPE 6 always equals 60%. So the difference is me, lol.

10/20/L, for a powerlifter if following the template, = 10 weeks offseason training + 10 weeks pre competition training. In the off season everything is RPE based. In the competition period everything is percentage based.

Eric

 

[william bad butt]

nstead of 5*5 200 why not just say 1*5 200 if you only do one set with 200?

To me, 1x5 with 200 might look like 1x45, 1x95, 1x135, 1x170, 5x200.

Where 5x5 (1 top set) is 5x45, 5x95, 5x135, 5x170, 5x200.

 

[william bad butt]

I use the barbell floor press because it is much more shoulder friendly - the floor stops the elbows going behind the shoulder which, particularly under heavy load, is a key source of shoulder stress/injury. (Board press is a similar way of avoiding the same position - elbows back and under load.) Floor press has other benefits as Eric outlined

The more I think about, the more I stand by my statement:

To me, the floor press is to the bench press as the overhead press is to the push press.

My bench press is explosive. I drive my heels into the floor and explode the bar up. It does feel like a push press. In fact, I think Pavel writes about this in the PTTP Professional book (I need to re-read it). The floor press seems more like a grind, more like a squat and deadlift. And I suspect it is more effective at building more absolute strength. I've been floor pressing for 44 weeks now. I suspect when I go back to the bench press, I will be pleasantly surprised. It will be a good test!

Eric

 

[Steve A]

For me if I was doing 5x5 1 top set at 350 lb it would be: bar x1, 135 x1, 185 x5, 225 x5, 275 x5, 315 x5, 350 x5. With 2 top sets I'd do the same but only do 185 x1 and 350 x2x5.

To me (in 10/20/L terminology) this just means 60% of my max for a top set of 5 reps. I may be capable of doing it for 20 reps.

Eric, thank you. I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out. Now I can interpret the daily workouts. His use of the nomenclature is a bit different than what most seem to use.

What is really interesting to me is just how little stress (at least on paper) you are needing to use to make progress.

 

[william bad butt]

What is really interesting to me is just how little stress (at least on paper) you are needing to use to make progress.

Yes! It does look pretty easy. I can tell you that it doesnt always feel like it, lol. But yes, the intent is not to grind yourself into the ground and beat yourself up. Especially considering that every few workouts he has you doing 50% of Intensity! I can tell you that I look forward to those Deloads! The 1st time you go through this, if you decide to try it, it wont be too difficult. In fact, if you are conservative with your starting weights (like you should be), you may find the workouts even easy. It is going through this a 2nd and 3rd time where you start to see how things build on each other.

I was attracted to this program, years ago, because of this. I was recovering from an injured back and couldn't handle too much volume. I wanted the lowest volume, but effective, powerlifting program I could find. Now I am in great shape and could handle a high volume routine. But why bother when this works? I have other things to do besides living in the gym.

My only warning is based on your level. If you are more novice vs intermediate level, you will likely make faster strength gains if you just did a simple linear progression for 3 months, before doing this undulating periodization scheme. Via linear progression, max Intensity increases daily or weekly. With this program, 10/20/L, max intensity increases every 10 or 20 weeks. But for me, if I can add 5 or 10 lb to my max lifts every 10 weeks, I'm thrilled! Especially if I can repeat this over and over again.

Eric

 

[Steve A]

Eric, thanks again. At my stage any gains (re-gains, really) are pretty exciting, so totally understand.

Do you prefer the Combo or the Jumbo split (or even the conventional)?

 

[william bad butt]

Eric, thanks again. At my stage any gains (re-gains, really) are pretty exciting, so totally understand.

Do you prefer the Combo or the Jumbo split (or even the conventional)?

They all work. I dont like conventional. I prefer combo or jumbo. I think I prefer combo.

If you end up trying it down the road, let me know how it goes. Positive and negative. I'm interested. If you need help setting up the accessory lifts let me know. Or contact Brian.

Eric

 

[watchnerd]

I haven't done front squats or sumo deadlifts in a very long time (decade?). I'm terrible at them. I put 225lb and did 5x5 front squats my 1st week. My abs screamed at me for a few days. I've never had DOMS in my abs before!!! Very unpleasant.

Welcome to my world.

Current cycle has front squat 3x a week.

Plus 4 min snatch balance finishers.

I have to foam roll my abs.

I have ab bruises and clavicle abrasions.