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Barbell Beginner Barbell Program Questions

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somanaut

somanaut

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Hi

41 year old male, been doing SF kettlebell work on and off for a couple of years, looking to PERHAPS getting into barbell non competitive lifting.

I have completed S&S Simple a few times over the years (currently on my 3rd time on it), and I really like the minimalistic approach of such a program. I have been practising at home until now, but that may soon no longer be an option, since I soon may be sharing my small flat with my girlfriend. So I was thinking about joining a gym and training 3 times a week. The reason I am thinking about barbell, is that the gyms in my area do not have a good selection of kettlebells or even a designated areas to train with them. Two of them do have, but I dislike those two gyms (people and music).

I like the minimalistic approach of SF programs, and prefer to focus on just the powerlifting lifts (and military press and pull/chin ups). SF Reload sounds like it's for more experienced lifters, and Easy Strength sounds like it need more than 3 days a week. I would like to stay with SF programming/methods and not have to look for others like Starting Strength/Barbell Prescription/5x5 Strong Lift.

TL;DR: What is a good beginner program for barbell?
 
Pavel’s book Power to the People! must be 20 years old by now but it’s still a great was to get started. Read the book and if you only have 3 days per week, you can try 15-20 lifts per session instead of 10. You’ll achieve the same weekly volume that way.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
Pavel’s book Power to the People! must be 20 years old by now but it’s still a great was to get started. Read the book and if you only have 3 days per week, you can try 15-20 lifts per session instead of 10. You’ll achieve the same weekly volume that way.

-S-
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+1.
For a beginner, there are lots of good programs. Specific programming is less important to a beginner's progress than developing skill in the lifts and some sort of sensible progressive loading.

PTTP is a great choice because it (the book) emphasizes the skill and technique of generating tension, which is what a beginner needs to learn. The book also has great guidance on progressive loading and planning cycles.

I did PTTP before ever touching a KB (KBs weren't even a thing in the US at the time) and even though I had done some weight training before, it was really the start of me training to actually get stronger. There was a line in the book about training to failure, which I had always believed was essential (quoting from memory so hopefully this is close to accurate): "If training to failure is so great, why has your bench been stuck at 185 since Arnold's last movie?" Pavel was talking to me right there ;-).

The sets and reps are tertiary to the skill of generating tension and sensibly adding load.

If staying with the PTTP template of two lifts per session, but with 3x/week. schedule, I second @Steve Freides's advice to increase the daily volume. A tried and true way to do this, which is consistent with PTTP's pattern of a top set and then backoff sets is a 54321 rep scheme (with a constant weight, backing off in reps/set), which gives you 15 reps instead of the normal 10 for PTTP.

If you want to train the 3 powerlifts plus MP, lifting 3x/week, you can alternate A and B workouts with two lifts each, such as A=Squat/BP and B=DL/MP.

If you want to do all four lifts every session, stick to 10 reps/lift. The PTTP pattern of a top set and 90% back off set works nicely here because the back off set give you a little more volume with less of a fatigue/recovery cost, and the lighter back off set is a great opportunity to focus on specific techniques where your undivided attention does not have to be on just making the lift.
 
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You can modify Easy Strength in the same way, by adding a little volume to the three days. When I run ES, I find that four days a week is the sweet spot for me. Can you find an outdoor spot to train with your KB? If so, ES 3x wk and a couple days of KB in the park.
 
vegpedlr said:
You can modify Easy Strength in the same way, by adding a little volume to the three days. When I run ES, I find that four days a week is the sweet spot for me. Can you find an outdoor spot to train with your KB? If so, ES 3x wk and couple days of KB in the park.
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Not really any outdoor spots to train, where it will make sense on a daily basis. I did look at easy strength, and while I am sure it works, there is just to many moving parts for me. S&S is the only program that has worked for me, because it is so simple and I like that. But thanks for the suggestion.

@Steve Freides @Steve W. Thanks for the tip about PTTP, I didn't know you could modify it like that. I really like the idea of just focusing on 2 lifts, which would be the deadlift and military press for me. If I have to move my practise out of the living room and substitute kb with bb, then I will consider it.
 
somanaut said:
@Steve Freides @Steve W. Thanks for the tip about PTTP,
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You're welcome.

somanaut said:
I didn't know you could modify it like that.
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Well, you really _can't_ modify it like that - it does become something else, and you're into the realm of 3x/week programs and there are lots of other ways to handle 3x/week, e.g., you might one each of of a 10-, 20-, and 30-rep day. There are all kinds of possibilities. @Steve W's idea of 5-4-3-2-1 seems good and it's 15 reps. I would likely choose to model the reps scheme on the Bear program that's also in the book, and thus do 100 x 5, 90 x 5, 80 x 5 for 15 reps. And doing 10-, 15- and 20-rep days or 10-20-30 rep days (for 45 or 60 reps, respectively) would be even better. But now we've made our simple program not so simple ...

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
You're welcome.

Well, you really _can't_ modify it like that - it does become something else, and you're into the realm of 3x/week programs and there are lots of other ways to handle 3x/week, e.g., you might one each of of a 10-, 20-, and 30-rep day. There are all kinds of possibilities. @Steve W's idea of 5-4-3-2-1 seems good and it's 15 reps. I would likely choose to model the reps scheme on the Bear program that's also in the book, and thus do 100 x 5, 90 x 5, 80 x 5 for 15 reps. And doing 10-, 15- and 20-rep days or 10-20-30 rep days (for 45 or 60 reps, respectively) would be even better. But now we've made our simple program not so simple ...

-S-
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Yeah...that is too complicated for me. Why do BB programs allways become so complicated? Hence why I gravitated towards S&S, so simple that even I could understand it enough to get some work done. I guess it’s the fixed weight of the KB that forces a certain kind of programming?
It the same with my bike, it’s a fixie, so just one gear. I could perhaps accept a 3 gear bike, but no more than that.
 
@somanaut, you ride a fixtie? I'm an old Sheldon Brown fan and have ridden solo centuries on a fixtie. I don't ride any more, but I actually own two, one for club ride and longer solo rides, and one with a much lower gear I used to get around town here.

Any of the versions we've mentioned could be OK program, but also keep in mind that Reload has schedules for 2x, 3x, and more often, and that might be where you want to look for solid information.

-S-
 
Steve Freides said:
@somanaut, you ride a fixtie? I'm an old Sheldon Brown fan and have ridden solo centuries on a fixtie. I don't ride any more, but I actually own two, one for club ride and longer solo rides, and one with a much lower gear I used to get around town here.

Any of the versions we've mentioned could be OK program, but also keep in mind that Reload has schedules for 2x, 3x, and more often, and that might be where you want to look for solid information.

-S-
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I love fixie bikes! Nothing better than racing people with multiple gears between intersections. The town I live in is a bit too hilly for a fixie, and I really should buy a 3 gear...and another fixie ofc.

I thought Reload was for the more advanced BB lifter, or at least the intermediate that has hit a progression wall?
 
All,

The question I have about Easy Strength (on my Kindle right now) is when running it with say, S & S (or in a little while Q & D) is one 6 x 1 session of deadlift a week going to build strength or do I have to plug another day (or two) into the week? I'm a law enforcement officer and need to be in top shape, but don't want to spend two hours in the gym.

Paul
 
With Easy Strength, the only important thing regarding rep ranges is the “about 10” rule. Most people do either 2x5 or 3x3. Don’t overthink it, then it’s not Easy.
 
vegpedlr said:
With Easy Strength, the only important thing regarding rep ranges is the “about 10” rule. Most people do either 2x5 or 3x3. Don’t overthink it, then it’s not Easy.
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No, I understand that, but do I do three days of deadlifts (M, W, F) at the stated reps and sets scheme, or is one session a week what we're shooting for?
 
Same thing every time. A different take would be what Tactical Barbell does, which includes a DL once a week option.
 
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