Barbell Bench press shoulder saftey
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william bad butt
Level 7 Valued Member
I bench press. I'm 41. I have no shoulder issues. I've benching off and on since I was 17 or 18. And I've been doing it very consistently the last 4 years or so.
Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
What makes you worry about the bench press more than the other lifts?
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
Many lifters report shoulder problems from bench and overhead press and some quit those lifts all together. I have had shoulder problems and find using a Swiss bar or dumbbells with neutral grip helps. As does using the floor press instead of the bench press. Also staying away from max weight and failure and ensuring proper rest.
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Gravytrain
Level 5 Valued Member
ive read a slight incline is easier on the shoulders fwiw
LukeV
Level 7 Valued Member
sounds like what floor press achieves for me, stops the elbows dropping below the shoulder.
in OHP I find that a heavy weight, as in above, say, 5RM, stresses the Acromioclavicular Joint as I lift the weight from the rack. It's that first movement that seems to be problematic. But with a lighter weight (and higher reps) I don't get that problem.
And when I'm bench pressing ~5RM or above the pronated grip tends to flare the elbows out which is also a definite no-no for me. As stated above I prefer a swiss bar or dumbbells in order to use a neutral grip, or I drop the weight to ~10RM or above and do higher rep sets
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Dumbbell bench press is a good shout for keeping your shoulders happy; it's harder to move a lot of weight but you can find the angles and positions that suit you best rather than being restricted by the inflexible barbell. It's possibly better suited to hypertrophy than to maximal strength but unless your goal is to bench as much as humanly possible I can't see that being a problem.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I'm 50. I have shoulder issues, not from benching, but benching aggravates them.
So I don't do them.
As I'm not a power lifter, it's not a competition lift for me, I don't have to bench.
Plus, as a weightlifter, my snatch shoulder mobility is better when I don't bench.
I have much happier shoulders doing chest exercises that let my scapula move freely.
In addition to ring work, dips, and push ups as staples, I'm experimenting with ball presses -- jury is still out on those.
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watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
I should also add:
I do a lot of overhead and shoulder work (every training session), using different modalities, compared to many people.
I might have fewer issues with the bench if I did less shoulder work -- my shoulders are in a perpetual state of pump and repeated inflammation, which reduces AC joint space.
I do a lot of overhead and shoulder work (every training session), using different modalities, compared to many people.
I might have fewer issues with the bench if I did less shoulder work -- my shoulders are in a perpetual state of pump and repeated inflammation, which reduces AC joint space.
Nate
Level 6 Valued Member
Literally had this conversion this morning with my doctor (former sports med in Big 12 & 500+ bench himself). Said after 40 most people have degeneration and wear and tear in their shoulders where they may want to stop benching. Open chain exercises would allow better scapula mobility and less likely to cause problems in an aging shoulder.
Everyone is different though. I'm long and lanky so i have up bench for floor press long ago (thinking of letting that go now as well). To touch the bar to my chest, my elbow were far behind my back. A barrel chested friend of mine, however, has a bench range of motion shorter than my floor press... His take home, the joints are what you have to really protect long term. don't be afraid to let it go if it's giving you problems. There's nothing magical about any one lift.
Everyone is different though. I'm long and lanky so i have up bench for floor press long ago (thinking of letting that go now as well). To touch the bar to my chest, my elbow were far behind my back. A barrel chested friend of mine, however, has a bench range of motion shorter than my floor press... His take home, the joints are what you have to really protect long term. don't be afraid to let it go if it's giving you problems. There's nothing magical about any one lift.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
I personally know plenty of strong bench pressers who train and compete well into their 40s and 50s. Still to see if they continue longer. I've also seen lots of people older than that competing and doing well.
On the other hand, I have of course heard from some people that they can't bench or that their shoulders hurt or what else. But these typically aren't ambitious or that motivated lifters.
I think there may be two big factors; training smart, and refining technique. Don't break yourself in training. And seek advice on your form and keep perfecting it through all the years.
And those two things stand equally for every lift. I'm not sure if the bench is any different from the rest. Could be just the popularity that brings it out.
On the other hand, I have of course heard from some people that they can't bench or that their shoulders hurt or what else. But these typically aren't ambitious or that motivated lifters.
I think there may be two big factors; training smart, and refining technique. Don't break yourself in training. And seek advice on your form and keep perfecting it through all the years.
And those two things stand equally for every lift. I'm not sure if the bench is any different from the rest. Could be just the popularity that brings it out.
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
Well, the lack of scapular mobility in the bench is pretty bio-mechanically unique amongst presses.
Antti
Level 10 Valued Member
I wouldn't take the single sentence out of context. On every lift, lack of training smarts and bad form leads to a bigger chance of injury.
Spartan Agoge
Level 6 Valued Member
I guess that you mean clean and strict press. If so, your shoulders will be alright.
You have to do some kind of overhead pressing in order to strengthen and protect yous shoulders. Barbell ohp, dumbbells ohp etc. I would recomend both high weight low reps, and super light weight for sets of 30+(for the tendons).
Also, be sure to have good bench form.
Chrisdavisjr
Level 7 Valued Member
Absolutely. I remember struggling to bench 40kg and having a lot of shoulder pain when doing so and this was from never taking the time to figure out how to set-up properly; Due to its popularity with many less 'cerebral' gym goers, it's easy to assume that the bench press is as simple as lying down, unracking the bar and pressing it.
This is why, during my brief career as a personal trainer, I would encourage gym members to start with the dumbbell bench press as it's a lot more forgiving in terms of positions and joint angles (although definitely not when it comes to lifting heavy) and most people can get the hang of it fairly quickly.
Kenny Croxdale
Level 7 Valued Member
The Following
...is based on information that I have come across and determined from practical experience.
Benching Shoulder Issues
The Traditional Supinated (palms out) Bench Press places some stress on the shoulders.
Baseball Pitchers
Years ago, I attended a Strength Clinic. One of the the presenters was a Sports Physical Therapist. He spoke on why some Baseball Pitchers have long careers and others short ones.
One of the finding was that those with long careers had stronger a Posterior Rotator Cuff muscles that counter balanced the strain place on their shoulder when throwing.
Those with short careers tended to have weaker Posterior Rotator Cuff muscles.
The Physical Therapist noted that Fast Underhand Soft Ball Pitcher rarely had any shoulder problems.
The Take Home Message
`1) Shoulder health is maintain when Posterior Rotator Cuff Exercises are part of a strength training program.
That is also what Chris Thibaudeau stated in one of his articles. Thibadeau recommended 2:1 to 4:1 Ratio of Posterior Rotator Cuff to Anterior Cuff Exercises.
2) Underhand Pitches places less stress on the shoulder.
What we can extrapolate from that for the Bench Press is that Underhand Bench Pressing places less stress on the shoulder. as well.
This is a good article that goes into it.
Reverse Grip Bench Press
Master the Reverse-Grip Bench Press
Don't be scared. The reverse-grip bench press can be safely used to hit new, pain-free PR’s. Here’s how.
It is one of the exercise that I used (still do) to rehab my shoulder issue. It definitely places less stress on the shoulders.
Neutral Grip
As Luke stated, the Swiss Bar and Dumbbells allow you to perform the Bench Press with more of a neutral grip. This places less stress on the shoulder.
Chrisdavisir also recommended Dumbbell Bench Press Training
I purchased a Swiss Bar a few years ago. That assisted with my shoulder recovery.
Chris Thibaudeau also addressed slightly angling your hands in a Traditional Overhand Bench Press Grip. Angling your hands, as with the Swiss Bar angled grips, decrease the stress on the shoulder.
To angle the hands on a Traditional Overhand Bench Press Grip, you need to use a Thumbless Grip. Doing so, allows you to slightly rotate your grip.
Bar Chest Placement
A high bar placement places more stress on the shoulder.
Allowing the bar to touch more on the upper part of the abs decreases the stress on the shoulder.
Plyometric Bench Pressing
This method develops the Stretch Reflex, power off the chest; which I am a proponent of.
The downside is that it produces a lot of shoulder stress, as you know. I believe it is part of the reason for my shoulder issues.
I still perform Plyometric Bench Pressing but limit it.
Dr Keith Baar
#156 Dr. Keith Baar | Tendon Health and Elastic Power Performance
Dr. Keith Baar covers all ends of the spectrum on tendon action in isometric training, tendon rebuilding, nutrition, modes of loading, and more.
www.just-fly-sports.com
My shoulder issues had to do with connective tissue issues.
Baar's information goes into how to rehab and strength connective tissue. I found this to be helpful.
Two things that helped me were...
1) Isometric Actions: As per Baar, slow strength training exercise increase connective tissue strength; "No movement is slower than an Isometric Action", since there no movement.
2) Collagen: His research found that taking collage strengthens connective tissue. Jello (collagen) is now my dessert. Baar found that taking a small amount of Vitamin C with collagen increased it effectiveness.
When making my Jello, I mix in a small amount of Vitamin C powder.
Kettlebell Halo
I found this to be one of the best exercise for shoulder rehab and health.
Summary
1) Posterior Rotator Cuff
Base on the Sports Physical Therapist presentation, Chris Thibaudeua's information and my personal rehab shoulder rehab experience, I am a huge proponent of at least a 2:1 Ratio of Posterior to Anterior Rotator Cuff Exercises.
2) Connective Tissue
I am now a proponent of Isometric Actions and taking collagen for maintaining and increasing connective tissue strength and health.
3) Plyometric Bench Press Training
I continue to advocate this type of training with loads of 48 - 62%, as a means of developing the Stretch Reflex and Power. This type of training places a lot of stress on the shoulder.
It needs to be offset with Isometric Actions, Limit Strength Training (no and slow movements) along with taking collagen (like eating Jello) to ensure good joint health.
4) Neutral and Reverse Grip Bench Press Training
a) The Swiss Bar and Dumbbells allow you to perform a Neutral Grip Bench Press; placing less stress on the shoulder.
b) Performing a Traditional Pronated Grip Bench Press with a slightly angled grip decrease shoulder stress.
c) The Reverse Grip Bench Press minimize shoulder stress.
d) Lower bar placement on the chest at the upper part of the abs place less stress on the shoulders.
4) Kettlebell Halo
I consider this to be a great total shoulder exercise.
5) Dimethyl Sulfoxide (DMSO)
I have found this has helped with my shoulder rehab and with recovery from hard training sessions.
Some of these method ensure you maintain healthy shoulder and some of them will assist if you have shoulder issues.
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Philippe Geoffrion
Level 7 Valued Member
I feel a need to expand on my prior inquiry, as I’ve not heard from OP, as to why he’s worried more about the bench press causing injury than the squat or deadlift.
The reason I ask is because as of recent years, with the onset of desk jobs, the loss of the overhead press as king of upper body lifts, and the ego driven mania of the average gym goer, the bench press has acquired a somewhat unfair reputation as being a shoulder destroyer. Now the squat had a bit of its day as a “knee destroyer” and often the deadlift, when carelessly performed, has the potential to confine you bedside for weeks. I’d surmise the press is the safest lift, namely because it also requires the lowest load, but alas looking back at old presses, you’d wonder how many backs it’s wrecked.
When regarding the average gym goer, usually male, bench pressing, what do we see? A total disregard for form or safety driven by an obsessive ego where no care to setup is taken and the bar is plunged downward into the chest and, in writhing fashion with spotters hands of assist, is wobbled up as the presser contorts and flails in all directions in an effort to impress nobody. Imagine the same trainer doing the same with a squat. If there were any meaningful poundage used (doubtful) and the hips ever reached parallel (dubious), this would be a catastrophe. He may get away with it in a deadlift, but unless genetically gifted with an unbreakable spine, not for long. It is interested to note in my years of powerlifting, I’ve witnessed far more knee, hip and back injuries than shoulder.
Is this to say the bench performed correctly is completely safe? No. None when dealing with high poundages are. But there are certainly things you can do to mitigate the dangers.
1) learn correct form. The chest should be propped up and shoulders pulled back (scalp retraction) and down (depression) towards the hips. This will raise your chest up, fasten the shoulders down and decrease ROM. While I contend that some may bench with a more flat bank and be stronger (Mike McDonald, Rick Weil) and not suffer the consequences, this is the accepted modern literature. While modern trainers have surmised that keeping the scapula in retraction inhibits proper shoulder function of the serratus anterior, I find it hard to accept the scapula can freely rotate when they are the base of where your resting your body and weight of the bar on. Thus other exercises must be included to promote this function. The press is one such exercise.
2) imbalance of pressing/pulling. Looking back at average joe bencher, following his circus act, his workout will probably follow with Inclines, dumbbells, flies, pec decks etc. often done on Monday, I’d be surprised to see him come back later and do any type of rows or back work, further contributing to the muscle imbalances, shoulders forward posture which often a major contributor to shoulder issues. @kennycro@@aol.com talked about this so I won’t continue.
3) Grip width adding pause and load selection. Now I’m going to lump these together as I’ve ranted long enough but with all other considerations, a medium width seems to be safest. I’d recommend a thumbless grip, but I can’t as if someone’s not familiar with such, it could cause an accident although I’ve used it for years and never experienced such (knock on wood). Thumbless allows more freedom at the shoulder. I bench wide, as it’s my strongest position, elbows flared although contrary to what’s believed to be best, causes me no pain. This is after I’ve torn my pec and labrum benching (it was my fault, not the exercises). It may also behoobe you to pause the bar on your chest. Charles Staley at T-Nation who’s competed in powerlifting in his sixties says this has helped his shoulders remain pain free.
4) Lastly, if bench causes you pain, unless you’re a power lifter or trying out for the combine, it is not essential you perform it. No barbell lift is unmodifiable. Some more shoulder friendly contenders would be as others have mentioned but also the floor press or decline press. Both allow heavy lifting while easing shoulder strain.
The reason I ask is because as of recent years, with the onset of desk jobs, the loss of the overhead press as king of upper body lifts, and the ego driven mania of the average gym goer, the bench press has acquired a somewhat unfair reputation as being a shoulder destroyer. Now the squat had a bit of its day as a “knee destroyer” and often the deadlift, when carelessly performed, has the potential to confine you bedside for weeks. I’d surmise the press is the safest lift, namely because it also requires the lowest load, but alas looking back at old presses, you’d wonder how many backs it’s wrecked.
When regarding the average gym goer, usually male, bench pressing, what do we see? A total disregard for form or safety driven by an obsessive ego where no care to setup is taken and the bar is plunged downward into the chest and, in writhing fashion with spotters hands of assist, is wobbled up as the presser contorts and flails in all directions in an effort to impress nobody. Imagine the same trainer doing the same with a squat. If there were any meaningful poundage used (doubtful) and the hips ever reached parallel (dubious), this would be a catastrophe. He may get away with it in a deadlift, but unless genetically gifted with an unbreakable spine, not for long. It is interested to note in my years of powerlifting, I’ve witnessed far more knee, hip and back injuries than shoulder.
Is this to say the bench performed correctly is completely safe? No. None when dealing with high poundages are. But there are certainly things you can do to mitigate the dangers.
1) learn correct form. The chest should be propped up and shoulders pulled back (scalp retraction) and down (depression) towards the hips. This will raise your chest up, fasten the shoulders down and decrease ROM. While I contend that some may bench with a more flat bank and be stronger (Mike McDonald, Rick Weil) and not suffer the consequences, this is the accepted modern literature. While modern trainers have surmised that keeping the scapula in retraction inhibits proper shoulder function of the serratus anterior, I find it hard to accept the scapula can freely rotate when they are the base of where your resting your body and weight of the bar on. Thus other exercises must be included to promote this function. The press is one such exercise.
2) imbalance of pressing/pulling. Looking back at average joe bencher, following his circus act, his workout will probably follow with Inclines, dumbbells, flies, pec decks etc. often done on Monday, I’d be surprised to see him come back later and do any type of rows or back work, further contributing to the muscle imbalances, shoulders forward posture which often a major contributor to shoulder issues. @kennycro@@aol.com talked about this so I won’t continue.
3) Grip width adding pause and load selection. Now I’m going to lump these together as I’ve ranted long enough but with all other considerations, a medium width seems to be safest. I’d recommend a thumbless grip, but I can’t as if someone’s not familiar with such, it could cause an accident although I’ve used it for years and never experienced such (knock on wood). Thumbless allows more freedom at the shoulder. I bench wide, as it’s my strongest position, elbows flared although contrary to what’s believed to be best, causes me no pain. This is after I’ve torn my pec and labrum benching (it was my fault, not the exercises). It may also behoobe you to pause the bar on your chest. Charles Staley at T-Nation who’s competed in powerlifting in his sixties says this has helped his shoulders remain pain free.
4) Lastly, if bench causes you pain, unless you’re a power lifter or trying out for the combine, it is not essential you perform it. No barbell lift is unmodifiable. Some more shoulder friendly contenders would be as others have mentioned but also the floor press or decline press. Both allow heavy lifting while easing shoulder strain.
Nate
Level 6 Valued Member
Obviously this isn't a solution for everyone but as a mid-40s GPP lift-for-life guy with a high mileage throwing shoulder, "heavy" pressing doesnt have to come from a barbell. I bet there are many average guys like me (170# - best bench only 275) that could still find feet-elevated ring pushups with a vest are in a rep range that constitutes heavy. And scaps and shoulders move free...
NOT appropriate for competitors, high level or those benching comfortably. But soooo many are not in that category that are hanging on to the lift anyways, even though its pain & surgery (also can apply to other lifts too).
The OPs intent is important as everyone goes through the same process. Whats your own individual, current situation (Point A); what is your goal (Point B); what are the ways you can go from A to B (Programs)?
NOT appropriate for competitors, high level or those benching comfortably. But soooo many are not in that category that are hanging on to the lift anyways, even though its pain & surgery (also can apply to other lifts too).
The OPs intent is important as everyone goes through the same process. Whats your own individual, current situation (Point A); what is your goal (Point B); what are the ways you can go from A to B (Programs)?
watchnerd
Level 8 Valued Member
The scapular mobility limitations isn't just an issue of bad form.
The nature of the exercise and use of the bench itself limits scapular mobility relative to other options.
Better vs bad form can make it better or worse, but the fundamental physics remain.
How much of a problem this presents varies by physiognomy.
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